Military Fitness Brainstorming

Discussion in 'Fitness and Nutrition' started by Etype, Jun 24, 2012.

  1. Etype

    Etype Special Forces Verified Sniper

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    This is something that takes place in almost every thread in this section. I've taken the last three weeks off from working out and am dreading the restart DOMs. In that time, I've been assessing all of the programs I've used and the pros and cons of each. I was doing my own brand of Westside/Crossfit up until my break, but wasn't as happy with that as I thought I'd be. I've read just about every piece of open source info from Crossfit sources, Louie Simmons, EliteFTS, James Fitzgerald, and Mark Twight- I think they are all awesome, and that there is something to be gained from each. I'm going to continue programming my own workouts and see what I come up with as far as scheduling, protocols, etc. I figured I would put some of my thoughts down in bullet format and that others would probably want to do the same.
    • IMO, Louie Simmons is the end all authority for strength. He knows more than anyone else on the matter and has decades of research on hundreds of athletes to prove it. I think the repetition method and max effort method are the two most relevant strength approaches for us. The dynamic method, I feel, has more application to sport and powerlifting itself- and that there's just not enough room in a schedule to include it and still work in the other necessarily aspects.
      • An interesting point Louie harps on is to not use barbells for condition. He disagrees with high rep barbell exercises in the name of metabolic conditioning, arguing that for pro athletes and powerlifters it's just too risky- time is money and no one wants to deal with the minor back/hip/hamstring strains. He argues that conditioning implements like sleds, battling ropes, jump ropes, weighted carries, etc should be used.
        • I used to discount the quarterly low back strain or shoulder pain as part of the game, but I'm starting to realize that the forced deload I'm put through isn't something I should have to deal with. I'm never severely injured, just enough to make me work around said injury for a week or so.
    • Frequency/Schedule- Something I like about Westside is that it's a weekly split. I think Mon/Tues/Thurs/Fri would be ideal. It keeps the weekends open, and gives you the option of active recovery or a complete rest day on Wednesday.
    • Weekly single mode conditioning- The thing you hear most from folks is that their program lacks running or swimming. Planning for a weekly long swim, run, or ruck wouldn't be a bad idea- especially if you're training for selection or a school. If you want extra endurance work, you could do one long event, and one multi modal conditioning event of Crossfit variety.
    • Weekly workout with body armor or ruck- It could be a ruck, a body armor, run, or just a conditioning workout in body armor or with a ruck on. Flipping a tire, swinging a hammer, or doing pull ups with a ruck or body armor on isn't too far off from things you'll have to do on a deployment or in selection.
    More to follow.
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  2. Paul215

    Paul215 Verified Military

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    Can't wait to see where this thread goes. Lately I've been doing some programming put out by one of the schools I will be attending but typically I follow something similar where I will stick to some type of strength in the morning with conditioning later in the day. Really good point on wearing a ruck, makes life completely different haha
  3. reed11b

    reed11b Paratrooper Verified Military

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    Not a huge fan of basing the work-out routine around weight lifting. Also can the see the need for more conditioning to be programmed in. Those are my thoughts, probably worth what you paid for them.
    Reed
  4. CDG

    CDG Verified Military

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    Good shit dude. I would add that those prepping for a Selection course have other unique needs that many programs do not adequately address. One of the things I gained from my time doing MA was the ability to recover from a 60-90 minute beatdown and come back and do it again the next day. SOFWODs addresses this as well, and does it in a manner that allows for a higher overall intensity level, IMO. Maybe not everyone needs this training, but I know I benefitted greatly from it. CF trains you to be able to go long once and do well. I do not feel it trains you to go long and then come back again the next day and go as long or longer. From what many of you have said, CF-style training is great for the "operators". It would seem based on those comments that SOF mission fitness differs quite a bit from SOF Selection fitness. Reason would then dictate that those already in a SOF unit require a different training protocol than those prepping for a Selection.
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  5. CDG

    CDG Verified Military

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    Are you saying you disagree with basing conditioning around strength work? Or are you saying that you disagree with the inclusion of any weightlifting?
  6. Etype

    Etype Special Forces Verified Sniper

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    Alright, this has been consuming my thoughts so I have to type this out or I'll never fall asleep. I'm going to give this a no BS 2 month trial run to see what happens. Actually doing it will expose any weaknesses or shortcomings.
    • 4 Days a week, M-T-T-F, Wednesday is optional for recovery work.
    • 3 Protocols-
      1. Strength- Basically a Westside style max effort day complete with repetition method assistance work. I'll alternate squat/DL and press days.
      2. Single Mode Endurance- Run, ruck, row, or swim.
      3. Crossfit Style Conditioning- I'm going to use the MGW method to randomize it.
    • I'll go through each training protocol in order- with 4 workout days in the week, each week will be different.
    • I'm going to exclude everything that has historically cause injury. If I use barbells in conditioning workouts, I'm going to front load it in the circuit and separate it with prescribed breaks James Fitzgerald style. No high rep box jumps, no sumo deadlift high pulls, no kipping pull ups.
    • I'm also going to cut back on the oly lifting. It's something that's been disputed by a lot of folks who are smarter than me. If it comes into question, there has to be some efficacy to the argument. Here's how I feel about it- you can take a long time practicing it and getting good at it, or you can spend that time doing box jumps, squats, OHPs, etc and reap the benefits of actually exercising and not practicing exercising.
    I'm going to start out tomorrow with a strength day. Probably box squats, then GHD sit ups and GHRs.
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  7. F.CASTLE

    F.CASTLE Verified Military

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    Good notes. I'm looking forward to reading about your results.
  8. Paul215

    Paul215 Verified Military

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    Will you be keeping a log of all the training here?
  9. Invictus

    Invictus Grasshopper Member

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    I'm sure through your reading you've come across the repeated bout effect- but for anyone else just starting a new training regimen or coming back from an extended time off, when your body is not used to the stress the DOMs will be much greater than normal. It's often a good idea for the first sessions to be lighter in weight and intensity.
    Big fan of this section in particular. Looking forward to your training results and the rest of this thread.
  10. SkrewzLoose

    SkrewzLoose Something Clever Verified Military

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    Looking forward to following this as well. I had been thinking about putting up my own training log once I start 5/3/1. I like to be able to see the progress I'm making.
    Good shit, as always, Etype. Can't wait to see this get started.
  11. Sendero

    Sendero Member

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    Great posts Etype, and I look forward to following the progression.
  12. lindy

    lindy Verified SOF Support

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    How about some references...cheat sheet or something. I don't understand the words coming out of your...keyboard. :(
  13. SkrewzLoose

    SkrewzLoose Something Clever Verified Military

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    I'll translate...
    Etype: "Not only am I bigger, stronger, and faster but I'm also smarter. I'll be combining several different workout styles to maximize my training and ultimately take over the entire universe. Pussies need not apply." :D
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  14. Sendero

    Sendero Member

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    Well played. :thumbsup: :D
  15. Impulse45

    Impulse45 Unverified

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    You probably have already thought of this as you posted the article, but since reading "The Holy Grail in Speed Training" by Barry Ross, I've been doing an explosive movement after the work sets of my main lifts. Ross only specifically mentions plyos after deadlifting, but I took the general idea and paired bench with plyo-pushups and box jumps with squats as well. I also decided to use broad jumps for deadlifting. I figure you could at least retain a DE element to your training without having to dedicate time in a training session specifically for DE work. I follow 5/3/1 and started doing this for the two cycles ago and I feel I have improved my explosiveness without dedicating time to DE moments like speed bench and speed squatting. My numbers on my DL, squat, and bench have continued to improve as well so it certainly hasn't had a derogatory effect on my training. My Push Press stalled out but I attribute that to me dropping a few lbs. I must inform you that my numbers on the big 3 or the big 4 according to Wendler's programming are lower than yours so you are lifting at a higher level than me.
  16. Etype

    Etype Special Forces Verified Sniper

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    I think Ross stumbled onto an inkling of what Louie Simmons is and has been exploring in depth for a long time. The max effort and dynamic effort method are equaling complimenting parts and are relevant to both explosiveness and maximal strength.

    Push press is sort of a weird measure, IMO. It's a combination of squat lockout, OHP lockout, and midline stability. I'd be more worried about OHP than push press.

    For those of you interested in Ross's article, I happened to have it on my hard drive- see attached.



    Some more things I've been thinking of-
    • Throwing-
      • A couple examples of what I've seen-
        • I used to workout with a crusty (now retired) former tier 1 turned back to SF guy- but don't get it wrong, he could still get down with the best of them. He like to do a workout that consisted solely of throwing a 20# dumbbell. He'd go out to Pike Field, put 30 minutes on the clock, and just throw it like a shot put alternating hands. It was a smoker, legs, back, shoulders, abs, arms.
        • A WO I deployed with liked to do a similar workout but used a medicine ball. He would either throw it backward over his head with both arms, or forward like a chest pass. He did about the same way, he'd either pick an arbitrary amount of time (20-30 minutes), or just do it until he was smoked.
      • This is a great austere environment type workout. You could use anything- med ball, dumbbell, kettle bell, a big rock, an old vehicle part- anything that's heavy.
      • Since there is no eccentric (lower phase), you don't get very sore from these types of workouts. It's a good feeling to be able to really crush yourself one day, and wake up feeling pretty good the next. You will, however, notice the metabolic depletion in the ATP/CP and anaerobic ranges since it's pretty demanding. Probably a good workout to follow up with a run, swim, or row.
      • I really don't see much throwing outside of the strongman and field. I think Crossfit might pull out something with a med ball every once in a while. The catching phase of wall balls make it dissimilar because it adds an eccentric element.
    A largely unexploited aspect of fitness, maybe because there's not much there to gain.


    I did my second day on the self-programming today. I did Cindy with 2 dead hang pull ups in place of the 5 kipping. I'm skipping the 1 workout in kit/ruck this week since I'm spending about 5 hours a day everyday on the range this week- that itself is smoking me. Next up is an "monostructural" day as CF likes to call it (they are really good at coming with their own marketable terms), so I'll probably run 5 miles tomorrow.

    Attached Files:

  17. CDG

    CDG Verified Military

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    Have you looked into any of Dan John's stuff?
  18. Etype

    Etype Special Forces Verified Sniper

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    Yes, he trains more for throwing, by throwing. That, and he puts a lot of his eggs into the olympic lifting basket, which Louie Simmons et al have proved to be inferior.
  19. Impulse45

    Impulse45 Unverified

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    I use push press instead of strict OHP because the initial portion of pushing a barbell up from it being racked across my shoulders until it gets to about nose or eye level bothers my shoulders. The leg drive with the push press allows me to bypass this uncomfortable portion and still get most of the benefits of driving a heavy weight overhead and having to stabilize it. That was my theory anyway. I get that it isn't ideal for a heavy/maximal effort lift. I could do a partial ROM OHP from a rack with the pins set up at about eye level, but I have been traveling quite a bit the over the my last few cycles and some gyms that I lifted in during a cycle did not have power racks so I had to clean it from the floor or unrack the barbell from an incline bench. I also do strict OHP using dumbbells with my palms facing each other as an assistance lift on bench day as a neutral grip does not bother my shoulders. If I lifted at a gym with a swiss bar I would most likely switch back to using strict OHP for a main lift or rotate between the two.

    Are you now only dedicating two days, 1 upper and 1 lower, a week toward strength?
  20. is friday

    is friday I'm a professional. Verified Military

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    Would you welcome the rest of us to post our routines and results, Etype? I'm trying to get myself whipped into shape for Basic Recon Course mid-August. I have about 5 weeks left. I finished physical therapy 2 weeks ago for my dislocated shoulder. My gouge might be useful for data comparison if I end up being physically prepared for BRC despite having a short window.

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