FIELD LOSS OF SENSITIVE ITEM

[CAL*38A]

To the point:

One of my NCOs lost an old MBTR while on FTX. He did not catch it until the end of the days mission. I sent a search party to the tng site. No luck. Again next day, and the next. Nada.
The MBTR had nothing loaded into and was used for nothing other than internal comms. Still a sensitive item, yes I am aware.

We were really busy and had daily missions to run supporting the unit training with us. I also notified the units running the FTX, Range Control, the roleplayers and the OPFOR unit. I felt it was unwise to basically stop the exercise for an MBTR.

We just returned from AT and gave it an extra 24 to see if we got a touchback from any of the other units. Nothing.

I started a DA200 and a DA2823, and notified the CDR that we needed to address a field loss issue.
He blew a gasket and is out for blood.

I am not too concerned about an ass chewing; I am, however, concerned that this guy rather than trying to alleviate the issue wants to make a big show about it, saying he even has to notify the higher CMD.

For me, fuck it, I will buy one and cover the FLP, but my real concern is for my Team SGT. He is a professional high-speed NCO with over 12 yrs of service, and up for promotion. It's not like he dropped the thing; the POS issue pouch broke while pulling the BN CDR out of the hot zone and EVACing him out of there. In the heat of the moment, the shit broke.

I find it hard to believe that he is the only person that this has ever happened to.

I am concerned that he will try to get him strung up. This NCO is probably the most capable soldier in the unit.

An MBTR radio is a sensitive item. Got it. Should have reported it sooner. Got that. But realistically, to burn an NCO for this seems like total chickenshit stuff ?

Constructive input would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

 

[AKkeith]

Dang. You're in a tough spot. I know how commands go crazy after stuff like that goes missing. Our comm guy dropped one on a beach during a training raid. We low crawled that damn beach back and forth. Luckily we found it.
Unfortunetly I don't have any help for you other than saying I feel for you and your guy.

 

[Teufel]

How do you lose an MBITR and not find out about it until the end of the day? Not ideal. I don't know how the Army works; any missing serialized gear is a Division CG CCIR at 1MARDIV. It shouldn't be career ending but it is still a big deal.

 

[CAL*38A]

End of mission, not end of the day.
We were in the middle of a training iteration. We came under fire while on a SLE and we had to extricate the BC out of there in haste. The loss was discovered when we returned to the TAA.
I guess in your outfit they value a lousy $200 ( $400 new on Ebay) barely functional piece of internal comm more than an experienced NCO ?
And I disagree. I do not feel it is something to string up an NCO over. Shit does happen, even in the Corps, so please. I have lots of friends with USMC service telling me how they lost shit left and right. And none got reamed for it unless deservedly so.

 

[SpongeBob*24]

Check your numbers, the MBITR's are $6000-$8000 each, and its not the $$$$ that is the big deal, the Army spends $6000 on overpriced toilet paper that cuts your ass....It's the Crypto Card that will snip your nuts.

It looks like you did everything right. In the future maybe better PTT's would have helped you notice that your pouch broke but you have a dangling 5 lb radio hitting you in the knee. Good sworn statements should keep you and your buddy on the right side of pain. Also that BC you had to "save", his sworn statement needs to be included for icing on the cake!

Side note, Pass me the link to getting MBITR's on EBAY for $400 new, I think I just came up with my retirement plan....

 

[TLDR20]

Why wasn't it tied down is the better question.

 

[Totentanz]

It looks like you did everything right.

That depends on the SOPs/CCIR in place - I've never been to a unit where waiting until "the next day. And the next day" and then waiting 24 hours after returning from an exercise before deciding to report higher would have been anywhere close to an acceptable COA.

It shouldn't be career ending but it is still a big deal.

This. And waiting to report has the potential to make it career-ending.

 

[CAL*38A]

Check your numbers, the MBITR's are $6000-$8000 each, and its not the $$$$ that is the big deal, the Army spends $6000 on overpriced toilet paper that cuts your ass....It's the Crypto Card that will snip your nuts.

It looks like you did everything right. In the future maybe better PTT's would have helped you notice that your pouch broke but you have a dangling 5 lb radio hitting you in the knee. Good sworn statements should keep you and your buddy on the right side of pain. Also that BC you had to "save", his sworn statement needs to be included for icing on the cake!

Side note, Pass me the link to getting MBITR's on EBAY for $400 new, I think I just came up with my retirement plan....

It was not my drop, guy. My NCO notified me upon end of mission. I saw his pouch; it looks like it caught on the window frame when they exited, and ripped the side.

There was no TACTNET load on it. We used it for internal comms and it barely worked. There was nothing loaded in it. And it was tied at the top. The shit slid out down the bottom when it ripped.

I am not concerned about any pain for me. I do not want my NCO ran up the pole. I am not making excuses, but I am going to defend him no matter what, not because he was wrong, but because he has done an outstanding job the 3 yrs he has been in the unit. Unnecessary blood is not the answer.

 

[DocIllinois]

Its normally the shitbags who get black marks over something like this so I would be surprised if this NCO's good service record doesn't factor in to any punishment decision. Its good that you (or whomever is the PL) are willing to be right there with him if he's called onto the carpet. Its ultimately the PL's fault that the item was lost.

@Totentanz is spot on; the waiting to report is a major no go in any case. Decisions have consequences and there will be some for that.

Stop getting butt hurt by good advice and be sure you're telling your commander everything in the above post.

 

[CAL*38A]

Folks, I am not asking for sympathy or excuses. Shit happened and it's done. I asked for input as to how to help out my NCO , not remarks.

At any rate, thanks all.

 

[Il Duce]

Your CDR has to do a Field Loss of Property Liability (FLIPL) and an investigation under article 15-6 as the loss was of a sensitive item. It's a big deal and it's very likely recommendations out of the 15-6 would include disciplinary action - it would if I were doing the investigation. If the IO does their job there will be several recommendations to come out of the investigation - better accountability procedures at a minimum. Your team should have kept up with their gear better and you should have reported it immediately when you identified the loss - you needed to give your higher CDR the ability to sign off on your decision not to halt the exercise.

Ultimately your BN/BDE CDR will decide the future of disciplinary and administrative (financial) actions. All you can do is be honest with the IO, acknowledge your mistakes, and be ready to take whatever punishment the CDR decides. That's the best way to go into any investigation.

 

[Gunz]

You can help your NCO by standing up for him as best as you can under the circumstances. There's not much else you can do. Unit CDRs are going to go apeshit over gear loss, especially comm gear or organic weapons etc. That should be expected no matter what the item cost because it's their job to make sure shit like this doesn't happen in actual combat where the enemy can pick it up and make a YouTube celebration out of it and where your ass can be seriously compromised. The fact of whether or not it's encrypted or Type 1 or Type 4 or a useless piece of outmoded junk doesn't even enter into the equation.

 

[Ranger Psych]

It was not my drop, guy. My NCO notified me upon end of mission. I saw his pouch; it looks like it caught on the window frame when they exited, and ripped the side.

There was no TACTNET load on it. We used it for internal comms and it barely worked. There was nothing loaded in it. And it was tied at the top. The shit slid out down the bottom when it ripped.

I am not concerned about any pain for me. I do not want my NCO ran up the pole. I am not making excuses, but I am going to defend him no matter what, not because he was wrong, but because he has done an outstanding job the 3 yrs he has been in the unit. Unnecessary blood is not the answer.

Doesn't matter if there was a fill. Just the fact that it can TAKE a fill makes i5 sensitive for a reason. If you want help making your radios actually work better afor this is done, pipe up then. Il duce is correct with how that will go down. Look at it this way, a LT I had, left multiple common sensitive items, a unsanitized map, and some other junk on the other side of the country on a training mission. Even with a GOLOR, he still made LTC.....

 

[Totentanz]

Stop getting butt hurt by good advice and be sure you're telling your commander everything in the above post.

This.

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

Big deal? Meh, shit happens, they will hammer his ass with some bullshit, make him pay a depreciated value of the loss, and it will all be forgotten in 6 mths. Shit happens, this is a learning event, tie everything down, sensitive item check before you move off the objective, standard basic Army shit. His career is not over, and he isn't the first or last NCO to lose a sensitive item.

Stick up for him in the sense that he is a good NCO that made a mistake. Don't down play the mistake, address it as a learning experience (a costly one) that this NCO won't ever repeat. Ask for a light punishment, or to keep the punishment in house at your level. In other words you're not keeping him from facing the music, you want to ensure its dealt with correctly to help mold this NCO.

Class on tying down gear, writing a sensitive items checks and accountability SOP and implementing through NCOPD throughout the battalion, would be a fitting punishment/learning experience IMHO.

Just some ideas, good luck!

 

[AWP]

I obviously can't speak to your unit's command climate. Losing an MBITR or any CCI is a big deal, but shouldn't be a career killer for him.

Your problem is twofold: You reported it to other entities and by your own admission waited to report it to your commander. Your CDR found out about it after other units? That's rough. Secondary to this is the lack of a dummy cord on a sensitive item. Sure, not all of them are dummy corded, but a personal radio or crypto fill device? We'd dummy cord those in garrison. I'm surprised no one caught this, but it happens.

With the learning points/ beating out of the way, you're in a bind. You should go to bat for your NCO and take the hit for failure to report in a timely manner. I'd show your commander that you learned from this and implemented additional sensitive item checks and SOPs for securing sensitive items and inventories or some type of "self-check/ buddy check" system. The latter may sound dumb or like micromanagement, but you need to come to the table with some suggestions or action items on how to prevent this. Show him you learned and are solving the problem.

FWIW, I was a Guard E-5 when one of our SF teams lost an MBITR, also without fill, while at JRTC. The local "play" stopped while a search was made. Two SF A-teams, their SOCCE (company command w/ attachments), and the infantry units they supported all stopped within the affected grids until they found the radio. We're talking about 200 pax at JRTC for one radio. I was later an LT and had to go to bat for one of my guys. I took the hit for failure to supervise and SOPs. Fortunately in both cases we found the items but as a leader we're "responsible for all the platoon does or fails to do."

Good luck.

 

[Teufel]

End of mission, not end of the day.
We were in the middle of a training iteration. We came under fire while on a SLE and we had to extricate the BC out of there in haste. The loss was discovered when we returned to the TAA.
I guess in your outfit they value a lousy $200 ( $400 new on Ebay) barely functional piece of internal comm more than an experienced NCO ?
And I disagree. I do not feel it is something to string up an NCO over. Shit does happen, even in the Corps, so please. I have lots of friends with USMC service telling me how they lost shit left and right. And none got reamed for it unless deservedly so.

I'm not saying that you should string up your NCO. All I'm saying is that right now at 1MARDIV the CG is briefed on all missing serialized equipment. That obviously puts stress on the entire chain of command after any loss and likely explains why your CO blew a gasket, particularly if he found out after the event. I'm sure someone of significantly higher rank blew a gasket on him. The fiscal value of the item is irrelevant. We had a Marine lose a rifle and MBITR in the surf zone after he was caught under a flipped CRRC and cut away his equipment to escape. It was briefed to the CG immediately and the entire battalion combed the beach and surf for two days. The Marine only received a verbal counseling but everyone certainly walked away from the event with an appreciation for how important gear accountability is.

 

[moobob]

Honestly, some commanders will come down harder on the O once there was a delay in reporting the CCIR. I've seen an officer get "moved" from SOF to a conventional assignment because of the EXACT SAME circumstance.

 

[Gunz]

Bottom line is, there are consequences for a reason. Lose an MBTR to the enemy and it can potentially get people killed.

 

[ShadowSpear]

I'm surprised they don't have your unit walking on line through the woods looking for it.