Why Modern Soldiers are More Susceptible to Suicide

[Marauder06]

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...soldiers-are-more-susceptible-to-suicide?lite

“This group is the self-esteem generation. My worry is they have not dealt with enough challenges, enough disappointments in life for many of them to build the kind of resilience that is foundational when you go to war,” added Rudd. “This has led to many of us to having thin skin. That doesn’t bode well when you go to war.”

Thoughts?

 

[LibraryLady]

Your article states a rate of 9 in 100k active-duty soldiers committed suicide in 2001 increasing to 23 in 100k in 2011. By comparison, the overall national average in 2001 was 10.7 in 100k and in 2010 it only rose to 12.4 in 100k. Though if you were to drill it down even further to looking at age groups, the stats would be skewed even further since the general population already includes the military suicides and the vast majority of gen pop suicides occur in the 45+ age range.

The American Foundation for Suicide Prevention, AFSP has an interesting brief on military suicide with a rather illuminating stat:

Three of five veterans enrolled in VA care who died by suicide were patients with a known mental health condition.

That means 40% of veterans under VA care who committed suicide did NOT have a known mental health condition. And yet I find this on their page about the general public:

90% of people who die by suicide have a diagnosable and treatable psychiatric disorder at the time of their death.

In reference to the quote you highlighted, I don't give a damn about this group being a "self-esteem" generation. They are what they are, a different generation than the previous ones, with a different war than WWII, Korea or Vietnam; a different civilian society; and a different attitude on what put them in the war, ie mostly draft versus ALL volunteer.

The Pentagon needs to get their ass in gear and start treating these people, period. The brief I linked above does show there is movement in the rates towards the positive, but it is slow and it is not across the board consistent with different groups.

LL

 

[fox1371]

While I agree with LL that the Government needs to get off their ass and do something about this, I think that it's necessary that we identify the reasons that we're encountering such an increased amount of suicides.

I have to say that I agree with the article though. I don't know if I'd label is as low self-esteem or not, but I think there are some good points that have been made. I've just come to call it the "degradation of the modern man." I see it mainly with civilian men under the age of 30. It seems that men no longer have that drive to work for something. Many don't feel the need to take care of their girlfriend/wife/family. They're perfectly fine working some dead end job without pushing themselves further in life. They all need somebody to push them towards the next step. I think people are still dealing with the same emotional challenges throughout life, I just don't think that they've been taught to deal with those issues in a proper manner. Too many people have been coddled growing up. I think the answer is somewhere in there.

Another addition is that I think religion may have something to do with it. Nowadays Christian/Jewish etc morals aren't as prominent as they have been in the past. I'm not particularly a religious individual, so I'm not trying to be a Bible thumper here. I'm sure we all know where suicide stands with religion, so I won't go into a large rant on that.

 

[TLDR20]

Suicide is a personal choice, the last one someone makes. Is it an epidemic? No, do we need to attend mandatory 3 hour briefs about it? No, most of the time those briefs just let guys know what not to do/ how to act before pulling the trigger so to say. I also think that this isn't on the VA or the military, there are just too many assets available to put it on them. The Army bends over backwards to find and help soldiers who are having issues.

 

[Worldweaver]

most of the time those briefs just let guys know what not to do/ how to act before pulling the trigger so to say. I also think that this isn't on the VA or the military, there are just too many assets available to put it on them. The Army bends over backwards to find and help soldiers who are having issues.

I don't agree, I think the briefs are to allow those around to recognize the certain symptoms that are exhibited by most "suicidal" individuals, definitely worth the effort. Is it "on the military"? Possibly not, but a difference of 12.4/100K in the general pop to 23/100K in soldiers is a pretty large discrepancy. Hearing some of the guys around here talk about their PDA's, no one is being honest about listing their behavioral problems because it flags them as being "weak" or "pussies", they would rather bottle it up and treat it with a bottle and exacerbate the issue.

 

[pardus]

I also think that this isn't on the VA or the military, there are just too many assets available to put it on them. The Army bends over backwards to find and help soldiers who are having issues.

I disagree.
The Army fucks people, consciously and unconsciously the entire time they are in the service, over and over again. They set up a house of cards so that when real stress hits people they snap and end it.
Ive been tempted for a while now to write to the SMA and tell him to save the money on the bullshit ACE cards and instead train his NCOs properly and stop his enlisted guys getting fucked through the inefficient/corrupt and uncaring system, that gets all touchy feely after it has repeatedly raped you.
It's a soundbite and it's too late then.

 

[AWP]

This problem is so complex that I don't know if there is a right answer.

Mental health care for civilians is sketchy at times, and from what I've heard from friends the .mil side is much worse.

I can write more tomorrow, but to be brutally honest....the military will never take mental health care seriously. To do so would require a massive change in education and a shift in mentality from leadership at all levels.

 

[TLDR20]

I'm not saying being in the service is not an excacerbating part of the issue. I think the way we punish young immature soldiers has a lot to do with it.

Let me give a random example that if anything will go along with some points here. Imagine a young married soldier with a baby. That young soldier gets in trouble of some kind. Half pay, restriction, things like this. Now in addition to his work problems he has monetary problems, then the wife leaves. This kid is now fucked everywhere, he is a pariah at work, has no family support system and he kills himself. Is that the Army's fault? I don't know, we can't smoke soldiers now for fuck ups, so they get paperwork. I personally don't know what the solution is. I just don't think it is a 3 hour terrible PowerPoint on the issue.

 

[Crusader74]

I think it's prevalent in every Army, not just the US.. Last year we lost about 15 which for a small size Defence force was considered vast. However, all of them were enlisted, from Privates to Sgt's.. I've yet to hear of Officers deciding to end their lives in such a way..

Would that be considered a demographic considering its only prevalent in Enlisted soldiers as opposed to the higher paid Civil Servants of the Officers?

Not sure about the US but Officers are considered Civil Servants and Enlisted are Public Servants ..

 

[RackMaster]

I don't think the numbers are any different, it's just relative to the increase in population; I'm sure plenty more in the past happened and weren't identified as a suicide to either "protect" the family or the image of said Unit, ect.

There was a major investment in Mental Health here in Canada for the gen pop and serving CF members and Veterans. But now that there's a recession and we're "no longer at war" , they don't give a shit and said areas are the first to see cuts/hiring freezes. I don't think it's any different any where else, it's part of the culture change that needs to be fixed. In general, any mental health injury is not accepted as a "legit" injury and doesn't get the same support as the rest of the medical system. It's all a bunch of BS, a troop with VD would get more help...

 

[Viper1]

Puts Soldiers back in communal barracks living in garrison and while deployed and it might lesson the rates somewhat. It's easier to get depressed and downtrodden when you're alone in your room. It's harder when you got buddies either helping you through tough times. Of course the inverse may be true where a guy gets ostracized but it takes a lot for that to happen.

The best section from the last unit here was the sniper section. Why? Because they lived together in one room, shared space and became brothers. Their morale was through the roof. Everyone else was living separately and I believe some platoons and squads suffered because of that.

 

[RackMaster]

Puts Soldiers back in communal barracks living in garrison and while deployed and it might lesson the rates somewhat. It's easier to get depressed and downtrodden when you're alone in your room. It's harder when you got buddies either helping you through tough times. Of course the inverse may be true where a guy gets ostracized but it takes a lot for that to happen.

The best section from the last unit here was the sniper section. Why? Because they lived together in one room, shared space and became brothers. Their morale was through the roof. Everyone else was living separately and I believe some platoons and squads suffered because of that.

Completely agree. I think I was able to keep things in "check" while I lived in the barracks, even though it was a private room; we had communal living areas and kept an eye on each other regularly. It was once I was living alone that I think things really went down hill.

But I don't think that's a solution for every one and "older" soldiers have earned their independence.

 

[Marauder06]

Well, in this particular case, what's going to be better for the Soldiers, or more importantly, the service? What good is smoking a guy going to do here? Get the paperwork going, get him referred for counseling (all kinds of counseling, apparently) and get the guy some help. Extreme physical "corrective action" is unlikely to be particularly useful in this situation.

I'm all about putting things in writing. Moreover, something as complex and potentially volatile as what cback described SHOULD be put in writing. It doesn't necessarily need to be part of his permanent record, but it bears directly on that Soldier's ability to do his job. If it's serious enough to warrant it, make whatever he did or failed to do part of his permanent record so when he moves on to his next assignment, he's not starting over with a clean slate, because the issues this hypothetical Soldier has aren't going to end when he signs out of his current unit. If they're not serious, you can put his whole packet in the shredder the day he leaves the unit, no harm no foul.

 

[TLDR20]

I wasn't saying he was suicidal before, this is a normal soldier who just screws up then starts down this road to being suicidal.

 

[AWP]

I'm all about putting things in writing. Moreover, something as complex and potentially volatile as what cback described SHOULD be put in writing. It doesn't necessarily need to be part of his permanent record, but it bears directly on that Soldier's ability to do his job. If it's serious enough to warrant it, make whatever he did or failed to do part of his permanent record so when he moves on to his next assignment, he's not starting over with a clean slate, because the issues this hypothetical Soldier has aren't going to end when he signs out of his current unit. If they're not serious, you can put his whole packet in the shredder the day he leaves the unit, no harm no foul.

But there's the rub: we want our servicemembers to receive treatment, but if they know something could be a part of their record, even temporarily, then they are less likely to self-identify as having issues. You can say that such paperwork is temporary or shouldn't influence his next NCOER/ OER, but the reality is some bias will exist. Couple that with the "suck it up" mentality found everywhere and you're creating a powder keg; soldiers won't seek help because of the stigma of being "crazy." Add to it the horror stories coming out about how the military treats members (throwing medication at the problem for starters), and it shouldn't surprise any of us if the percentages of patients who self-identify are low.

To further compound the problem, something like PTSD is classified as an anxiety disorder, but other illnesses like bipolar disorder can present as anxiety, at the very least many of the symptoms overlap. Medically and politically the conditions for a PTSD diagnosis are ripe and no one wants to be classified as being bipolar because that's the kiss of death (discharge). While BP is only found in 2.6% of adult Americans, A) how many docs are blanket-diagnosing PTSD and B) how many vets will hide their symptoms or downplay them to remain in uniform?

As a whole, this is an ugly, ugly problem and I'll be surprised if the military ever comes to grips with it. Ultimately, if commanders are willing to accept x% of casualties in wartime, they will accept some percentage of mental health casualties at any time.

 

[Ranger Psych]

PTSD diagnosis is a kiss of death as well.

I went for help, wanting to keep my team/career/marriage.

The only thing I kept was my marriage.

Military mental medicine is a double D solution and I'm not talking a nice rack.
You pipe up, you're getting drugs and a discharge.

 

[Viper1]

PTSD diagnosis is a kiss of death as well.

I went for help, wanting to keep my team/career/marriage.

The only thing I kept was my marriage.

Military mental medicine is a double D solution and I'm not talking a nice rack.
You pipe up, you're getting drugs and a discharge.

I'm sorry about this brother. I really am. I got help in the Q course after trying to deal with a divorce and emotions from my first trip on my own. I purposefully went outside of the military to a civilian LMFT in town and paid out of pocket.

What is more telling is that LV and I were friends with a lady who did alcohol/drug abuse counseling at Fort Bragg. She was licensed, credentialed, the whole nine yards. SHE recommended that I seek help outside of the Army system. Talk about an eye-opener.

 

[Viper1]

PTSD diagnosis is a kiss of death as well.

I went for help, wanting to keep my team/career/marriage.

The only thing I kept was my marriage.

Military mental medicine is a double D solution and I'm not talking a nice rack.
You pipe up, you're getting drugs and a discharge.

Is this part of the suicide problem as well? Soldiers find that the service has broken their faith and trust?

 

[pardus]

we can't smoke soldiers now for fuck ups, so they get paperwork.

When did this happen?

Anyone know anything about this?

 

[Ranger Psych]

Is this part of the suicide problem as well? Soldiers find that the service has broken their faith and trust?

I'd say so. There was a significant part of me that was pissed off to no end when I recieved my SABO lawsuit paperwork. Breaking the SABO bit down barney style, there was around 10,000 guys and gals somewhat like me, across the services, who went for help, got the DD solution by the PEB/MEBs... except that US Code and Regs state that we were supposed to be medically retired.

So not only did I get fucked because I went for help, but I got fucked by a bunch of fucking field grade officers who didn't even bother to follow the regs that I personally followed and enforced for the better part of a decade.

A big part of suicide prevention is having a TL that's up in your shit. I took care of my team, squad and platoon in multiple ways. at least every other weekend and every friday I was up, poking my head around and seeing what peoples game plans were, DD checking if they're going partying etc. I did a bunch of shit with my squad and team, dragging along the barracks rats as well so they would get out of the barracks and actually get to see some of Alaska while they were there. Noone was really "left to their own devices". Everyone also had my cellphone written down and if they had any issues everyone knew I was "the QRF" and we'd figure out how to fix what was going on, then figure out later what the piper's toll for the roll was. Broken down rigs, middle of winter commisary/PX runs since it was quite some distance in -30 for people with no cars, lost accountability on a bar crawl, etc. Fixed the problem then, with following training/retraining to make sure whatever happened didn't happen again if it could be helped...if there was even a reason for doing training/retraining.

Just shit I remembered from my various TL's I had, and what I found to be effective and kept me and my guys engrossed in camaraderie and esprit de corps... which makes it harder to hide when you're having issues.