“Disband the Cops” thread

Rabid Badger

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I believe they saved "blackface" from a face full of quick dry cement and/or a few axe handles to the head by "arresting/detaining him.

Gotta give it to Frey, took a huge set of brass clankers to go in there solo, but he still left to the sound of "shame - shame - shame".

GF Memorial a few miles from my house yesterday. I thought it prudent to pay my respects by watching it on the tele. RIP George. Justice is coming.

I'm for the 1st Amendment as long as the protests stay peaceful. The lamestream media are stoking the violence.
 

Cookie_

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But he also cut the budget to training, getting rid of the "warrior" training program. (Whatever that was)
"Warrior Training" was created by LTC(R) David Grossman (the guy who wrote On Killing).

The lecture program is designed to get officers to imagine themselves as "knights or superheroes" and anyone in the community as a threat.

This video(comedy/lefty views notwithstanding) highlights a good amount of stuff from these lectures starting at ~6 minutes in.

Here's an article about why Minneapolis got rid of it.
 

ThunderHorse

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"Warrior Training" was created by LTC(R) David Grossman (the guy who wrote On Killing).

The lecture program is designed to get officers to imagine themselves as "knights or superheroes" and anyone in the community as a threat.

This video(comedy/lefty views notwithstanding) highlights a good amount of stuff from these lectures starting at ~6 minutes in.

Here's an article about why Minneapolis got rid of it.
Yeah I'm not saying it was a bad idea to remove that block, just that he failed to address the training issues/lack of training MNPD has.

I wonder if we're going to be dealing with mass protests/riots like Europe does now. If so, Law Enforcement stuff will have to change significantly including establishment of national riot units that can be deployed on a moments notice.
 
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ThunderHorse

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SaintKP

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If something is broke you try and fix it, you save the nuclear option until all other avenues are explored.
 

Kaldak

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I saw nothing about "proven" alternatives to police in either article.

I did see reference to "street teams" in the second article. That sounds a bit like "gangs" to me. Even if the professed purpose is to descalate a situation, that's hard to do with an armed robber.
 

Cookie_

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I am not joking, they are referring to sending psychologists and medical personnel to be first on scene to attempt non-violent outcomes.
I've seen that, and honestly it doesn't sound like a completely bad idea on its face to send people who actually have some training in that, but as @Kaldak just referenced; you still need somebody able to control the situation if shit goes sideways.

Why not keep police but focus more on training them with basic psych/med knowledge to attempt to control situations, as opposed to sending out some unarmed social worker?
 

GOTWA

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I can't be the only one that wants to see how this dumpster fire plays out, can I? Kind of that, well, you got what you deserved and I'm glad I could be along for the ride so you could see it.
 

GOTWA

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This is what happens when leaders live in a bubble and have never seen what lows humanity is truly capable of. Give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day. Take away the police, and he'll steal it from someone else.
 

Marauder06

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I've seen that, and honestly it doesn't sound like a completely bad idea on its face to send people who actually have some training in that, but as @Kaldak just referenced; you still need somebody able to control the situation if shit goes sideways.

Why not keep police but focus more on training them with basic psych/med knowledge to attempt to control situations, as opposed to sending out some unarmed social worker?
I think we tried something similar in Afghanistan, with the... Sociology Teams? Human Terrain Teams? I forget what we called them.

It didn't work well, because the two groups (sociologists and military) had fundamentally different, and often conflicting, goals, tactics, and perceptions about what they were there to do. Also, the former was utterly useless without the latter.
 

Stretcher Jockey

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So you're telling me: as an under-paid, under-appreciated, under-funded paramedic working in an inundated and completely overwhelmed medical system, I am also now going to be responsible for being first responder to potentially violent non-medical calls, all while unarmed and lacking training in any kind of defensive tactics besides the sweet soothing sound of my voice?

What the fuck is 2020?
 

Marauder06

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I don't understand how this "disband the police" movement is getting so out of hand. The reason just about every functional government in the world has one, is because it works.

As a group, people are greedy, violent, petty, and easily led. If they are not keep in check by the rule of law backed up by the threat of legitimately-employed state violence, they revert to their true nature. Our country is "Exhibit A."

Without a police force, you'll first have individual vigilantes... then small groups... then big groups... then everyone has a group... then some of the big groups unite under a warlord... who then goes around subjugating other warlords (because hegemony is the only way to be legitimately safe).

Afghanistan, Iraq, and Syria, collectively, are "Exhibit B."

Meanwhile, everyone is reduced to serfdom, because hey, at least we have security. And besides, what are we going to do about it? The Brute Squad is the only ones with money, weapons, and organization.

But over time, a middle class begins to emerge. The Brute Squad doesn't like it, but they like the taxes they can squeeze out of it. And then the middle class begins clamoring for their "rights," especially property rights. And if the Brute Squad and its petty despot leader doesn't grant it to them, they revolt. Or, worse yet, they stop producing things. And then the tax base goes in the toilet, and then it's really hard to pay the Brute Squad or buy those new palaces or shiny swords or tanks or gold crowns, or whatever.

So the middle class starts getting rights, and the Brute Squad starts protecting them, and their property, and then more and more people start climbing out of poverty, and start clamoring for more and more rights. Capitalism and trade kick in, and LOTS of people start making money. And then LOTS of people want these pesky things called "rights," especially property rights. At this point, the government can either become represssive (North Korea) or permissive (UK). But either way, you don't want lots of little fiefdoms with their own militaries, so the government starts consolidating power, and a whole bunch of little Brute Squads become one big Brute Squad.

...and then the Brute Squad isn't the Brute Squad anymore, it's a professional, dedicated, and highly trained police force.

And so we are right back where we started.

If you destroy the police force, or if you "defund" it into ineffectiveness, you destroy the middle class. Without the middle class, the upper class and lower class will be perpetually at war with each other, until the lower class overthrows (and becomes) the upper class, or the upper class repressses and enslaves the lower class.
 
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