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CCT to civilian ATC?

Ranger Psych

Ranger
Verified SOF
Joined
Sep 6, 2008
Messages
3,327
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Saving lives one axe swing at a time.
#21
Winds are in excess of 45 kts right now. I just watched a -12 take off and his wings were about as stable as Michael J. Fox on a trampoline.
I avoided looking out the windows doing that. I learned my lesson. :D

I think our limit is 25kt, or the equivalent of a 90 deg-25kt crosswind. Most of the time I didn't notice much. Looking out the cockpit was interesting. Looking out the side window? Never again. :ROFLMAO:

I think the AF suffered through worse than us though.
Try watching a DC-4 come in/out under those circumstances. And put it on the ground like a boss to boot. I was in a whole lotta WTF mode watching that whole approach and departure.

I guess there's no replacement for displacement, or something like that.
 

The Accountant

Airborne Infantry
Verified Military
Joined
Feb 25, 2015
Messages
226
#23
I am limited on my knowledge on specifics as far as ATC is concerned. However, this is what I do know since I know somebody who has been in ATC in the NYC area for quite a while and I feel I should comment on it. I along with many other semi-qualified individuals I know have applied to just sit to take their aptitude test to go to the FAA school and be trained. We were all denied, alright. Few months later the individual I am close to has met various individuals who are in the USAF or retired and they were all denied the opportunity. Supposedly even though you are already FAA certified and have working knowledge in the military with ATC they still need you to jump through hoops. Issue is it appears they don't actually provide you hoops to jump through to begin with. Again, don't know how accurate all this is. This is passed on info so we all know how warped information could become.
 

AWP

Formerly Known as Freefalling
Administrator
Joined
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Messages
13,080
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Not Afghanistan
#24
I am limited on my knowledge on specifics as far as ATC is concerned. However, this is what I do know since I know somebody who has been in ATC in the NYC area for quite a while and I feel I should comment on it. I along with many other semi-qualified individuals I know have applied to just sit to take their aptitude test to go to the FAA school and be trained. We were all denied, alright. Few months later the individual I am close to has met various individuals who are in the USAF or retired and they were all denied the opportunity. Supposedly even though you are already FAA certified and have working knowledge in the military with ATC they still need you to jump through hoops. Issue is it appears they don't actually provide you hoops to jump through to begin with. Again, don't know how accurate all this is. This is passed on info so we all know how warped information could become.
I could ask our controllers, but it varies. The FAA fluctuates in hiring criteria based upon tea leaves, open slots, applicants, etc. A lot also has to do with locale. Some are hired, but offered a job on the other side of the country. Don't like that? Go to the bottom of the pile. Maintenance is in a similar situation, you almost have to know the hiring manager. I know at least one guy who was hired, outright lied on his application just to obtain the interview, and then the interviewing managers KNEW what he did and admitted that was the only way for them to see his resume.

The FAA's a racket and as a maintainer I've stopped chasing that dragon. Bottom line: being FAA qualified from the AF, Navy, Army, Marines, Girl Scouts...none of it matters at times. It can be a crap shoot because the criteria changes.
 

DA SWO

SOWT
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Joined
Aug 18, 2007
Messages
8,320
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San Antonio Texas
#25
I could ask our controllers, but it varies. The FAA fluctuates in hiring criteria based upon tea leaves, open slots, applicants, etc. A lot also has to do with locale. Some are hired, but offered a job on the other side of the country. Don't like that? Go to the bottom of the pile. Maintenance is in a similar situation, you almost have to know the hiring manager. I know at least one guy who was hired, outright lied on his application just to obtain the interview, and then the interviewing managers KNEW what he did and admitted that was the only way for them to see his resume.

The FAA's a racket and as a maintainer I've stopped chasing that dragon. Bottom line: being FAA qualified from the AF, Navy, Army, Marines, Girl Scouts...none of it matters at times. It can be a crap shoot because the criteria changes.
Nasty Wx Service is the same way, unless you want a real shitty location in ND (which is what many guys do) just to get into the system.
 

The Accountant

Airborne Infantry
Verified Military
Joined
Feb 25, 2015
Messages
226
#26
I could ask our controllers, but it varies. The FAA fluctuates in hiring criteria based upon tea leaves, open slots, applicants, etc. A lot also has to do with locale. Some are hired, but offered a job on the other side of the country. Don't like that? Go to the bottom of the pile. Maintenance is in a similar situation, you almost have to know the hiring manager. I know at least one guy who was hired, outright lied on his application just to obtain the interview, and then the interviewing managers KNEW what he did and admitted that was the only way for them to see his resume.

The FAA's a racket and as a maintainer I've stopped chasing that dragon. Bottom line: being FAA qualified from the AF, Navy, Army, Marines, Girl Scouts...none of it matters at times. It can be a crap shoot because the criteria changes.
I was told about this a week ago but forgot to post this along in regards to the FAA and their latest hiring process.

http://www.foxbusiness.com/industri...ges-qualified-air-traffic-control-candidates/

According to a high up controller I personally know, it seems there will be some house cleaning in the FAA.
 

AWP

Formerly Known as Freefalling
Administrator
Joined
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Messages
13,080
Location
Not Afghanistan
#27
The FAA has hired two former co-workers in the last year. Both are maintainers and both had to take a job in the northeast or pound sand. The one in NYC, with locality pay, started in the low 70's. At least two controllers I used to work with said "Screw it" and started working in the Middle East. One's in Dubai making a metric butt ton of money.

ATC hiring in America is broken.
 

DA SWO

SOWT
Verified SOF
Joined
Aug 18, 2007
Messages
8,320
Location
San Antonio Texas
#28
The FAA has hired two former co-workers in the last year. Both are maintainers and both had to take a job in the northeast or pound sand. The one in NYC, with locality pay, started in the low 70's. At least two controllers I used to work with said "Screw it" and started working in the Middle East. One's in Dubai making a metric butt ton of money.

ATC hiring in America is broken.
Big lawsuit coming as they corrupted the EEO process as well, not surprising considering the racism coming from the White House.
 

KH

Unverified
Joined
Nov 23, 2016
Messages
8
#29
Sorry for reviving this old thread, but as a current FAA controller I might be able to add some info to the discussion on FAA hiring. While CCT has a mandatory requirement to go through the initial USAF air traffic control course, I'm not aware of any other mandatory follow on ATC training. The best odds of being hired by the FAA are to at least meet the minimum experience requirements of a previous ATC experience bid. That requires a minimum of 52 consecutive weeks of full time air traffic control experience in an air traffic facility after receipt of a rating or certification. I have heard of some CCTs being sent to a tower to receive a control tower operator (CTO) rating, but I haven't heard of one then remaining in the tower full time for at least 52 consecutive weeks after getting the rating. I've also not heard of a CCT being sent to multiple towers or to a radar facility, all of which would bolster an ATC resume above the minimum requirements.

Without meeting the previous experience requirements, someone would need to apply to an all sources bid. The odds of being hired are much lower as the number of applicants are higher. I think the bid that recently closed had close to 30,000 applicants for 1,400-1,800 openings. To be honest, with the all sources bids I think luck has more to do with getting hired than anything else.

In summary, CCT would not be the best choice if the goal is to do ATC on the outside. CCT only requires introductory ATC training. They have a much broader skill set to maintain which precludes comprehensive ATC training. But like others suggested, I haven't run into too many CCTs that are all about "regular" ATC and looking to do it on the outside.
 

amlove21

Pararescue
Administrator
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
3,387
Location
The Duke City
#30
Sorry for reviving this old thread, but as a current FAA controller I might be able to add some info to the discussion on FAA hiring. While CCT has a mandatory requirement to go through the initial USAF air traffic control course, I'm not aware of any other mandatory follow on ATC training. The best odds of being hired by the FAA are to at least meet the minimum experience requirements of a previous ATC experience bid. That requires a minimum of 52 consecutive weeks of full time air traffic control experience in an air traffic facility after receipt of a rating or certification. I have heard of some CCTs being sent to a tower to receive a control tower operator (CTO) rating, but I haven't heard of one then remaining in the tower full time for at least 52 consecutive weeks after getting the rating. I've also not heard of a CCT being sent to multiple towers or to a radar facility, all of which would bolster an ATC resume above the minimum requirements.

Without meeting the previous experience requirements, someone would need to apply to an all sources bid. The odds of being hired are much lower as the number of applicants are higher. I think the bid that recently closed had close to 30,000 applicants for 1,400-1,800 openings. To be honest, with the all sources bids I think luck has more to do with getting hired than anything else.

In summary, CCT would not be the best choice if the goal is to do ATC on the outside. CCT only requires introductory ATC training. They have a much broader skill set to maintain which precludes comprehensive ATC training. But like others suggested, I haven't run into too many CCTs that are all about "regular" ATC and looking to do it on the outside.
Don't worry about the necropost. Great information, thanks for putting it out there.