George Floyd/National Protests

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There are numerous videos that have been released just in the last few years of people who have been killed by police even after following their directions. But as @Cookie_ said, cops shouldn’t be kneeling on a guy’s neck for 9 minutes.
But does it constitute murder? There's absolutely nothing in anything I've seen so far that convinces me that type of charge is warranted.

What I see, are officers that, rightfully, believed the person they had in custody was under the influence of something. Floyd is complaining about breathing before he's placed on the ground or anyone kneels on him. He's concious and talking for several minutes while Chauvin kneels on him - and they wait for EMS! Chauvin's comments indicate he believes Floyd was not under any real duress from the restraint.

To me, I see training issues but no willful intent. Murder seems like an awfully big stretch, despite what an irrational BLM crowd says.

FWIW, the fact the media not only chose to air an illegally obtained video about an incident currently in trial, but edited it, speaks to their complete lack of ethics. This is how you get a mistrial.
 
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BlackSmokeRisinG

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The guy starts begging the officer not to shoot him right off the bat before he's out of the car. He's being dramatic because he's in trouble and he's high... Maybe he resisted, maybe for several minutes. Who cares? Four cops should be able to subdue and capture him in the cruiser while EMS comes, there's no tactical reason for kneeling on anyone's neck for more than the time it takes to put on cuffs, in any situation.
 

ThunderHorse

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I mean there is photographic evidence. View attachment 35114
Helpful, thanks. Been a lot of shit going on since then so hard to remember everything.

The guy starts begging the officer not to shoot him right off the bat before he's out of the car. He's being dramatic because he's in trouble and he's high... Maybe he resisted, maybe for several minutes. Who cares? Four cops should be able to subdue and capture him in the cruiser while EMS comes, there's no tactical reason for kneeling on anyone's neck for more than the time it takes to put on cuffs, in any situation.
As you can see in the video there is a significant size disparity between Floyd and all of the officers involved. Why are there four officers? Because two of those guys are rookies with two training officers.

Based on the footage I'm a bit impressed that they didn't use a taser. They didn't escalate. Given how high he was, not sure that would have done anything. Obviously all those dudes kneeling on him, the intent is to get him to calm down. What we're missing still is how he forced himself out of the car.

The more evidence comes out, the less cut and dry this becomes.
 
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The guy starts begging the officer not to shoot him right off the bat before he's out of the car. He's being dramatic because he's in trouble and he's high... Maybe he resisted, maybe for several minutes. Who cares? Four cops should be able to subdue and capture him in the cruiser while EMS comes, there's no tactical reason for kneeling on anyone's neck for more than the time it takes to put on cuffs, in any situation.
Remember, they pulled him out of the squad because he was banging his head on the window.
 

Ooh-Rah

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Given how high he was, not sure that would have done anything.
Has this been proven as fact (that he was high)? I do not recall reading about that here. Possible that I missed it, but I think it is important to be 100% on that claim.
 

R.Caerbannog

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It feels like this conversation is beginning to simmer - everyone continue to keep it professional please ....

By the way, is that pork and fried tofu simmering in red miso? Or is that a curry? Either way that looks good.

Nvm, looks like a chicken curry type of dish. Mistook the chicken fat for fried and them simmered tofu.

1596558285396.png
 
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BlackSmokeRisinG

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Remember, they pulled him out of the squad because he was banging his head on the window.
But there are ways to restrain someone without a knee on the neck. Two hands on the forehead works fine, and with 4 officers it should have been done in another manner.

I don't know what the police have for restraints, but self harm is not anywhere near a new concept for police to deal with. He was handcuffed from the back, they could restrain him on his side with one controlling the head, or face down with one on the legs, one on the body and one on the head. There's several ways to do it, suffocation is the number one concern in restraining someone.
 

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But there are ways to restrain someone without a knee on the neck. Two hands on the forehead works fine, and with 4 officers it should have been done in another manner.

I don't know what the police have for restraints, but self harm is not anywhere near a new concept for police to deal with. He was handcuffed from the back, they could restrain him on his side with one controlling the head, or face down with one on the legs, one on the body and one on the head. There's several ways to do it, suffocation is the number one concern in restraining someone.
I don't disagree. Training certainly looks to be the issue.

Keep in mind a couple of those officers had been on the street for less than 2 weeks. Chauvin was the experienced officer. His actions don't demonstrate an intent to kill but potentially highlight training issues -- which were now being passed on to rookie officers. That's not murder, that's not racism. Nothing about this supports either claim.

Now, if somone wants to argue some sort of negligence or manslaughter, that's a different question.
 

ThunderHorse

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I don't disagree. Training certainly looks to be the issue.

Keep in mind a couple of those officers had been on the street for less than 2 weeks. Chauvin was the experienced officer. His actions don't demonstrate an intent to kill but potentially highlight training issues -- which were now being passed on to rookie officers. That's not murder, that's not racism. Nothing about this supports either claim.

Now, if somone wants to argue some sort of negligence or manslaughter, that's a different question.
Remember, Knee on the neck was an approved restraint technique for MNPD.

Neck Hold Used By Minneapolis Officer Was Approved By Department Policy
 

BlackSmokeRisinG

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After seeing the body cam video and admittedly not watching much of the cell phone video, I see that this trial is going to be a shit show at best. I feel for the guy, and the officers trying to control a volatile situation.

I don't know the officers, and I hope whatever the outcome is justice is served. I'm sick of trial by media, I worked security at a hospital and had to restrain teenagers and large kids before, escort grown men out of the building, its always a crappy experience.
 
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