Protection orders and security clearance

Quest

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So, I have a civil protection order out against me until 2024. No criminal charges. Is that going to prevent a security clearance for 18x?
 

Kaldak

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Civil or criminal, both prevent deployment. No deployment, no enlistment.

If you can't deploy, you really don't add anything to the service. Sorry, but unless you clear up the civil issue, a waiver is a pipe dream.
 

Marine0311

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A hard yes unless you get a lawyer and see what happens.

You can't be enlist with anything hanging over your head.
 

Quest

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Civil protection order? result of possible domestic violence? What is the protective order for?
Kraut,783 I was accused of sexual assault. I have a court date to terminate the Order. If things go right, I should be clear by September.
 
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Ooh-Rah

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I wasnt convicted of a crime. The lautenberg doesnt apply
You are being pretty fucking vague without offering much to work with, and you came to us for help.

So....what are the details?

And...have you spoke to a recruiter about this yet? What did they say?
 

Quest

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Yes, Ive spoken to a recruiter. I could not get an answer regarding the security clearance. Details: I was not brought to trail, nor convicted of any crime. I have a civil protection order out against me for 5 years, ending 2024. Civil court is not criminal court. The provision of the order of protection states, "the respondent (me) shall not possess, use, carry, or obtain any deadly weapon, firearms or ammunition at any time while this order remains in effect unless the Respondent is excepted for official use pursuant to 18 U.S.C 925(a)(1). [NCIC 07]". Official use means: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/925. It would seem clear, then, that the Laudenberg doesnt apply. What kind of details do you need? Thanks
 

ThunderHorse

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Ok. So I spent some time thinking about this rather than giving you my previous response up top. In another life, I was a Squadron Human Resources Officer, or the S-1. So I'm going to put that hat on right now. I flagged multiple dudes and chaptered multiples dudes out of the Army with Civil protection orders against them. We had a few Soldiers that did fight hard and got those expunged. To say the Lautenberg amendment doesn't apply in the context of enlistment or current service would be incorrect.

If you had a civil protection order against you, you would be flagged under the Lautenburg Amendment and your CoC would proceed to administratively separate you from the Service. Your CoC could also seek UCMJ action against you.

So the likelihood of you even enlisting, let alone being allowed to touch a rifle is ABSOLUTELY minuscule.

For that I am sorry.

Now for my legal hat on. Get the order expunged, then go back to your recruiter.
 
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Quest

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Ok. So I spent some time thinking about this rather than giving you my previous response up top. In another life, I was a Squadron Human Resources Officer, or the S-1. So I'm going to put that hat on right now. I flagged multiple dudes and chaptered multiples dudes out of the Army with Civil protection orders against them. We had a few Soldiers that did fight hard and got those expunged. To say the Lautenberg amendment doesn't apply in the context of enlistment or current service would be incorrect.

If you had a civil protection order against you, you would be flagged under the Lautenburg Amendment and your CoC would proceed to administratively separate you from the Service. Your CoC could also seek UCMJ action against you.

So the likelihood of you even enlisting, let alone being allowed to touch a rifle is ABSOLUTELY minuscule.

For that I am sorry.

Now for my legal hat on. Get the order expunged, then go back to your recruiter.
Thanks, this is different than what my recruiter told me, which is why I came to you all for help. Just to clear, do you mean that, even after this order is dismissed by the Judge, my chances of enlisting are absolutely minuscule? Also, do you remember specifics of any of these cases you sited where multiple guys were kicked? I dont have any convictions, so Im curious to know if that matters. I appreciate your answers.
 

ThunderHorse

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Thanks, this is different than what my recruiter told me, which is why I came to you all for help. Just to clear, do you mean that, even after this order is dismissed by the Judge, my chances of enlisting are absolutely minuscule? Also, do you remember specifics of any of these cases you sited where multiple guys were kicked? I dont have any convictions, so Im curious to know if that matters. I appreciate your answers.
Heres the thing, you'll see in here that the lautenberg applies to restraining orders, however, if you read further its says only if there was a conviction. https://usacac.army.mil/sites/default/files/documents/sja/lautenberg.pdf
Ok, if it is expunged, your chances of enlisting go up. But you may still need a waiver. Dunno, I'm not a recruiter, nor have I been one in another life. I was Scout Platoon leader and then an S1 and then something else. I'm just explaining to you how this would go down in a FORSCOM unit.

IF you are in Active Service, and you have a dispute with someone that results in you having a Protection Order against you, you WILL be flagged under the Lautenberg Amendment. Your Chain of Command is then required to proceed with administrative separation as you are no longer allowed to handle a weapon. In fact, most of the time when you arrive on the duty day you are required to be supervised. If you are able to get the order expunged while you are in the process of being separated, your Chain of Command may choose to stop Separation and retain you.

Removing a Lautenberg Amendment Flag in my experience is damn near impossible. We had a guy that had one that his Chain of Command kept, he was No Shit the best SPC in the Squadron. How he got the Flag in the first place? An MP response to a domestic violence call at his home. He was not arrested and there were no charges. He and his wife were required to go to counseling. But getting that Flag removed required work from G-1 and Division Staff Judge Advocate.
 

Quest

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Ok, if it is expunged, your chances of enlisting go up. But you may still need a waiver. Dunno, I'm not a recruiter, nor have I been one in another life. I was Scout Platoon leader and then an S1 and then something else. I'm just explaining to you how this would go down in a FORSCOM unit.

IF you are in Active Service, and you have a dispute with someone that results in you having a Protection Order against you, you WILL be flagged under the Lautenberg Amendment. Your Chain of Command is then required to proceed with administrative separation as you are no longer allowed to handle a weapon. In fact, most of the time when you arrive on the duty day you are required to be supervised. If you are able to get the order expunged while you are in the process of being separated, your Chain of Command may choose to stop Separation and retain you.

Removing a Lautenberg Amendment Flag in my experience is damn near impossible. We had a guy that had one that his Chain of Command kept, he was No Shit the best SPC in the Squadron. How he got the Flag in the first place? An MP response to a domestic violence call at his home. He was not arrested and there were no charges. He and his wife were required to go to counseling. But getting that Flag removed required work from G-1 and Division Staff Judge Advocate.
Alright, thanks very much.
 

DA SWO

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Thanks, this is different than what my recruiter told me, which is why I came to you all for help. Just to clear, do you mean that, even after this order is dismissed by the Judge, my chances of enlisting are absolutely minuscule? Also, do you remember specifics of any of these cases you sited where multiple guys were kicked? I dont have any convictions, so Im curious to know if that matters. I appreciate your answers.
Step 1, get it expunged.
Step 2, see a recruiter.
Nothing happens until AFTER it's expunged.
 

policemedic

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A few things strike me here.

It seems you're emphasizing the word "civil" when the only thing that matters is you have a permanent protection order filed against you. I'd be interested in knowing what state you're in as procedures do vary a bit.

In my state a temporary order would have been granted first. This would have been done during an ex parte hearing. This would have been the first opportunity for someone to decide an order was not appropriate and deny the petition. You would then have had an opportunity to defend yourself in court--with a lawyer--against the petition. This means you had a chance to tell your side of the story to the judge. The judge found her more credible, you lost, and a 5-year order was granted and entered into NCIC.

Now, your state likely has its own version of Lautenberg restrictions on gun possession. Those can come into play, but what really impacts you are the federal restrictions. Put simply, you are prohibited from possessing firearms and the government is prohibited from furnishing them to you until the order is expired or otherwise nullified. I have never been involved in a case where a permanent order, such as was entered against you, was nullified prior to expiring but that doesn't mean it can't happen.

The specific prohibitions that apply to you are found within 18 USC 922 (a)(8)(d)(8), 18 USC 922 (a)(8)(g)(8), 18 USC 922 (a)(8)(h)(1) and (2).

That covers enlistment in my view, because you can't possess anything that goes bang in any way.

As to any potential clearance, if I were investigating I'd be very interested in any potential poor judgment, and I would definitely be talking in depth to the woman who filed the order. These are things you should be prepared for if you choose to pursue any cleared job outside the military.

It's probably not what you want to hear, but it is what it is.
 
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