The "All Things Politics" Thread (please review page 1)

Diamondback 2/2

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So, my question would be, is there a problem with the right? And if yes, what are they?

Historically (as in the last 50 years) the right has become overly focused on cutting taxes without cutting social programs. You can't have both, if you are going to keep social programs, you have to fund them.

I think the right claims to be small government, but yet they increase military and law enforcement funding and personnel. They claim less regulation but pass laws that may not directly contradict the constitution but have second and third effects.

They have a problem separating religion from the politics, which is mainly their base.

They believe in the expansion model as much as the left, just they want to use ground and resources to do it. Which is horrifying for our natural resources in the future.

They are just as much liars as the left...
 

Topkick

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Yeah, the right has problems. For one, they want to revamp or take away social programs that have been and still are successful, because they continue withdraw from those accounts. Thats divisive.
 

Diamondback 2/2

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Yeah, the right has problems. For one, they want to revamp or take away social programs that have been and still are successful, because they continue withdraw from those accounts. Thats divisive.

Well they claim to want that, but when have you actually seen them do that. Sure they may bump the numbers (age and ammounts) but when do they actually come in and 100% "yeah that is no more"? I haven't seen it, hell the whole dreamer bullshit is still on the table for immigration reform. It's all bullshit IMHO.
 

Topkick

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Well they claim to want that, but when have you actually seen them do that. Sure they may bump the numbers (age and ammounts) but when do they actually come in and 100% "yeah that is no more"? I haven't seen it, hell the whole dreamer bullshit is still on the table for immigration reform. It's all bullshit IMHO.
Paul Ryan basically promised to revamp all social programs this year but Trump ran on a promise that he wouldn't allow it. I think this may have something to do with Ryan announcing retirement. Just a hunch.
 

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It doesn't matter who Trump nominates, liberal, conservative, vegetable, they pick will opposed out of spite...by at least some people. I hope his staff is smart and they find one or more clean candidates, people without baggage or controversy. The People aren't voting on this judge and politicians may be less inclined to let some behavior slide.
 

Dienekes

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Honestly, excluding the methods, the problems with the left are similar to the problems of the right because the vast majority of either side refuse to delve into the facts of issues and determine their own views. They hear it from someone they respect and then read an article or two that reinforces that view alone and BOOM! View solidified and they feel good about their "informed" decision. The more specific problem with the right is that it is full of hypocrites. Most want welfare cut, but only as long as it's the kind where they don't benefit. If they stand to lose, they will absolutely put up a solid keyboard warrior fight, but when it comes to the "good of the country" as many propose, they are all talk and no walk. Then, you have people who refuse to allow a slight tax increase based solely on principle of the party, but demand a military that will wipe out the three toughest militaries in the world simultaneously. I would comment on the left, but I've tuned them out completely. Not a damn thing those on the news-making side of the left do surprises me at all anymore.

In truth, I don't believe that the problem lies with only on one party. I firmly believe that the problem lies with a general lack of civic duty and individual responsibility in the public at large. People believe that their rights are truly inalienable, that it is not even within the realm of possibility that they could possibly be taken away even in the event of war or true economic collapse. Essentially this is a cultural problem where people would rather sit on the couch Twitter-surfing than trying to improve their communities or lives or even make a glass of water, and not the world's greatest economy nor the world's most powerful military can save the country from a disease that infects at the individual level. Finally, social media is a devastating accelerant to the disease. I believe social media is absolutely the fucking devil reincarnate in the form of technology sent to ruin the world. Black Mirrors on Netflix may be hit or miss entertainment but the show's message is undeniable. US citizens want easy. They vote for easy, and they live easy. Yet easy does not ensure longevity.
 

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Both sides:

- Are allowing the far end of the spectrum to drive their parties.
- Suffer from a lack of leadership and vision (though this is undercut by the above)
- Are emotional and make emotional choices.
- Are unwilling to compromise.
- Want more gov't control of our lives.
- Are terrified of alienating their respective bases, forgetting that their base will still fall in line with the party.

The Left:

- Much more emotional than the Right
- Have tied their future to special interest groups and immigrants
- Exploit those groups without offering anything meaningful in return
- This then drives more of the party to the Left
- Have preached a quasi-Socialist view for so long a new generation is convinced that is the path to freedom/ crushing the Right.
- Have managed to change societal rules with regards to behavior and are now convinced they carry weight in excess of their numbers (this may be true)
- Have the media and entertainment industries on their side
- Leverages social media better than the Right

The Right:

- Too tied to evangelicals
- Should have utterly crushed any Neo-Nazi association from the alt-Right.
- Too many old white guys who are out of touch with much of the country.
- Unwilling to bend and "modernize." I see this as a function of the above.

I think the Left is more detached from reality than the Right, but has control over the media, social media, and pushing social agendas that slowly alter our landscape. I think it COULD one day have the upper hand unless the Right is willing to move more to the center. Think of it as boxing out during a rebound, positioning itself for a better shot at swing voters.

Ultimately, this is all mental masturbation. We're heading for a civil war. Everything is cyclical and history is no exception. Bloodshed is unfortunate and unwanted, but inevitable. We're at a point of brinkmanship within our country, our Cuban Missile Crisis as it were.
 

Blizzard

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A core issue for the "right" is simply that of messaging. Regardless of their stance on an issue, they fail to control the message. They find more ways to fuck up their messaging than the Vikings do of finding ways to blow Super Bowl opportunities. Sometimes it simply comes down to the people delivering the message; look no further than Trump but the examples are virtually endless. In some cases it's as though they haven't even researched their position, even it's the "correct" one. As a result, they look inept when attempting to justify it. They continually allow the "left" to shape their position on issues, which is unfathomable.

Similarly, the right has allowed itself to be saddled with the perception, which may be a reality to an extent, of being unable or unwilling to change/move with the times. As a result, they come across as aging and disconnected. Their inability shape this perception may ultimately tie back to their incompetent messaging. They've pissed away every opportunity in the past couple decades to change that message.

As with the "left", critical thinking across the board is not a strength.
 

AlpineTXN

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Ultimately, this is all mental masturbation. We're heading for a civil war. Everything is cyclical and history is no exception. Bloodshed is unfortunate and unwanted, but inevitable. We're at a point of brinkmanship within our country, our Cuban Missile Crisis as it were.

It's hard for me to imagine a true civil war scenario, although we have already seen pockets of violence and tension. Do you think it could escalate into more widespread scenarios? Regardless, we are definitely in a civil war of ideas. Funny enough, I was talking to one of my left-leaning friends about this the other day, and she was shocked that I thought the right was winning the debates thus far.

Hopefully the pendulum can swing back into more rational territory. It would be a worst-case scenario to see that kind of conflict here, especially given the reality of how great we all have it. Sure, things could always be better, but for the vast majority of Americans, there is no better place to be. Human nature at its finest.
 

Blizzard

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...especially given the reality of how great we all have it. Sure, things could always be better, but for the vast majority of Americans, there is no better place to be.
That is another interesting point in all this. The way we talk about issues and the context of those issues is so much different than it was 50+ years ago. Our society has changed so much and, frankly, we have it very, very good.

It reminds me of a discussion on Jerry Seinfeld's show "Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee". In one episode, Jerry is riding with Kevin Hart and during their discussion the topic of the kids and their wealth comes up:

Kevin Hart: "My daughter got right to the point: 'Dad, are we rich? Are we rich, yes or no? I said, 'Baby, we're doing well, but understand why.' I said, 'When you work hard, you put your mind to something, anything can happen and that's what I want you to do.'

Jerry Seinfeld: "You know what I say? I am. You're not."

Hart then goes on to talk about growing up in his neighborhood in Philadelphia where we could literally die any day.

But then Seinfeld says something kind of profound. He says, "It's gonna be different for them. Your problem was, things are bad, I gotta make it good. Their problem's gonna be, things are good, why do I feel bad?"

Generally speaking, that's kind of where we're at as a society as well. Things are good. That is not to suggest there aren't real issues or neighborhoods that are problematic but many of us have experienced other parts of the world and understand just how good we really have it. It provides some context. This shouldn't keep a society from progressing but it's a much different narrative than one we hear on a daily basis.
 

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It's hard for me to imagine a true civil war scenario, although we have already seen pockets of violence and tension. Do you think it could escalate into more widespread scenarios?

To my core. I tend to be a pessimist in all things, but with a general contempt for humanity as a whole. Regardless, history has shown us time and time again that revolution WILL happen in all nations/ civilizations. That revolution could be social, political, bloody, clean.....but it WILL happen. We are to think the US is any better, any different? How did we obtain our great nation in the first place? How did we keep it? We've had TWO civil wars already, a third is 100% within the realm of possibility.

The Left doesn't want a bloody civil war. It may think it is something it could win, but nah...my money's on bubba, the 2nd Amendment the ardent Left eschews, and sheer willpower. The Left has no hope of winning a civil war without an outside player or two supporting it with arms, ammunition, and training.

I don't want a war, but I see it as an inevitable rung on the ladder of history.
 

Marauder06

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The thing is, it doesn't take much to be violent. It's not hard to buy a gun in America. It's not hard to master the basics of shooting a gun. What's hard to do is to instill in people the motivation to do it. And that is what the far left has done.

I think people underestimate the hard Left. For one thing, there are far more of them than there are on the Right. They're conditioned to use violence, and to be OK with anything as long as it supports their political aims. The Right has none of that right now, except on the miniscule far Right, who is hated by everyone.

If there is another civil war, it will be long and bloody. And I'm not sure our country will survive it whole. Too many people see themselves as something other than Americans first.
 

Devildoc

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It doesn't matter who Trump nominates, liberal, conservative, vegetable, they pick will opposed out of spite...by at least some people. I hope his staff is smart and they find one or more clean candidates, people without baggage or controversy. The People aren't voting on this judge and politicians may be less inclined to let some behavior slide.

Kamala Harris already said his list of 25 potential candidates (from which he chose Gorsuch) was "a non-starter". The DNC will not approve any of his picks. Which is why I hope he endorses an immigrant female.
 
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