The "All Things Politics" Thread (please review page 1)

Topkick

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reality of how great we all have it
This is an interesting point of difference. The left has been conditioned to believe we've never been a great country or that we as a people have it great now. They've been trained to believe that if you love America, you must be a racist. Because, after all, the only thing we've done is steal this land from Indians and enslave African Americans. Until we all get with the times and put the past in the past, we are going nowhere.
 

Gunz

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I think a Left vs Right civil war is a reach. It wouldn't be just hippie-hunting Bubbas vs anarchistic bomb nuts. The military certainly would become involved but I can't wrap my head around Leftist military officers defecting with their Abrams tanks and F-35s to Kommiefornia and joining the Leftist Front for the Liberation of America. Remember in our last CW, military men generally went the way of their home states.

Violent demonstrations, acts of terrorism, ambush, bombings, murders...yeah, I can see that. (Remember the SDS/Black Panthers back in the 70's, the radical left bombing courthouses, killing cops and judges?) Then you'd get the radical Right, the neo-Nazis et al involved.

Any actual shooting civil war here would be, I think, guerrilla warfare, carried out by bands of irregulars.
 

Box

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The question isn't "what is wrong with the left(right)"
The question is 'what is wrong with politics'

The left(right) has become more obsessed with winning that they are with being correct - everything else is just contrived white noise used to stir up "the base"
...when Bush was in office, democrats bitched that he played golf too much
...when Obama was in office, republicans bitched that he played golf too much
...now that Trump is in office, democrats bitch that he plays golf too much


-Bush invaded two countries, grew the military, and tried to cresh the economy
-Obama sent drone strikes around the world, killed bin laden, legalized drugs and gay marriage - and blamed republicans for crashing the economy
-Trump cut taxes, bullied the NORKs into the early stages of peace talks, appointed a constitutionalist as Supreme Court Justice, and forced Americans to acknowledge that our political system is little more than just a taxpayer funded version of 'The Apprentice' - and he blamed the democrats for crashing the economy

...that doesn't happen if you are just playing golf. I skydive and shoot guns - that doesn't mean I'm not getting my job done.


There's nothing "wrong" with the left - if you are a liberal - things are working just fine - drugs are being legalized, social programs are flourishing, abortions are still legal, Obamacare hasn't been defunded, there's no "wall", and conservatives are being thrown out of public spaces for being conservative. Nothing wrong with that at all.

There is nothing "wrong" with the right if you are a conservative. Guns are still legal, concealed carry laws are much more lax then they have been in years, assault weapons are still legal in as many states as recreational drugs, the travel ban was upheld by the SCOTUS, and the president is making liberals foam at the mouth in irrational bouts of insanity every time he tweets. Life is good.


The problems is the individual American citizen that wakes up every morning looking for a reason to bitch about politics. I am more worried about finding a good leather craftsman so I can get a decent holster setup for cowboy action shooting than I am civil war breaking out.
 

Isiah6:8

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I think there is a divide in the ability to have a conversation with someone. Everything is so polarized right now, however, if you really sit down and talk with someone who is not of the same "party", I think people have more in common than not. One big issue I see is that many people believe there is no middle ground, it is all or nothing in terms of thought. They view their thoughts as sacred, and if someone doesn't agree, it is a personal attack on their self.

What baffles me is that in a day and age where access to information has never been greater, the populace as a whole appears incredibly uninformed. I am sure it has always been like this, but social media gives more people a voice, so it appears more apparent. It is difficult to have an in depth conversation on an issue and the ramifications of what people believe should happen. People instead opt for the inch deep and a mile wide conversations. Most of these conversations with people end up being whatever big article was shared on social media and individuals attempting to one up each other over whatever 30 seconds of wikipedia they could do.

The end result of that reminds me of being in school. There are people who cram information for an event and then purge it, retaining little moving forward. Then there are students who are trying to figure out what they are being taught, how and where it applies in the real world, and what information is useful to bring with them going forward.
 

Gunz

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So, my question would be, is there a problem with the right? And if yes, what are they?


@AWP answered the question as I would have.

We've stereotyped both Rightists and Leftists by their extremes; and moderate, open-minded, flexible, reasonable liberals and conservatives are lost behind all the rhetoric. This, I think is the major problem of both sides: the loud extremists fan the flames of hostility, the gap widens and becomes unbridgeable.
 

SearchFunctionJedi

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Fuck that... He needs to go all in and nominate Judge Jeanine.

Go hard or go home.
Fuck that... He needs to go all in and nominate Judge Jeanine.

Go hard or go home.

I've known Jeanine personally for the vast majority of my life, not a fan.

A good friend of mine was killed at her friends and neighbors house while she was the DA. Her and her now ex-husband have demonstrated questionable morals/ethics over the course of their lives/career.

Effe her.

Pirro Criticized for Handling Of Youth's Death at Party
 

Blizzard

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Just being a New Yorker is enough to get a 'no' vote from me. Look at where the current judges are from.

I'd like to see some representation from the Midwest, Southwest, Mountain states...virtually anywhere but one of the coasts, and we're full up on those from NY/NJ.

This is reportedly the list the President is working from and, fortunately, Pirro is not on it:
Trump Says He Will Nominate New Supreme Court Justice From This List
 

AlpineTXN

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@AWP I agree with you, on a long enough timeline, an event like that is a statistical certainty. I should've phrased my question as, "Do you think it could escalate to such an event in the relatively near future?" I don't personally feel that way, or at least envision it looking like @Ocoka described above, but it wouldn't take much at this point to really set things off.

My biggest concern is that we may not be able to band together and recover from this point. There's a lot of money and power in exploiting our human tendencies of 'Us against Them' type thinking. All of the incentives for journalists, news-sources, politicians etc. are structured to make us emotional and divided. This works in the short-term, but now we are left with this shit show today. I don't trust the government to fix this problem from within, and I don't trust the vast majority of Americans to consciously avoid/reject/not vote for the politicians/news-sources who propagate these messages. I'm not sure where we go as a society from here.
 

Devildoc

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The question isn't "what is wrong with the left(right)"
The question is 'what is wrong with politics'

I think this is the better question. I mean, it's not like our method of government is new, or that either party is new. Essentially, nothing has changed. Now, platforms do change within the parties: JFK would be a Republican by today's definition. But the biggest change has been the increased hostility and incivility and the absence of decorum. When did that start? I think the watershed was Bush Junior and Bush v Gore, with SCOTUS ending that election debacle.

Edited to add, the left no longer recognizes the legitimacy of the electoral college. To them anything short of the popular vote is banana republic.

Article bemoaning Kennedy's retirement, the "constitutional relic" of the electoral college, and the illegitimacy of Trump:

What happens to America if Justice Kennedy retires
 
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ThunderHorse

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Kamala Harris already said his list of 25 potential candidates (from which he chose Gorsuch) was "a non-starter". The DNC will not approve any of his picks. Which is why I hope he endorses an immigrant female.
Kamala Harris is a non-starter...I voted against her for AG and against her in my last vote as a CA resident. Trump will get whom he wants, Merrick Garland was a candidate selected by Obama that should have gotten through had our country not devolved into the vitriol of the two most unpalatable presidential candidates ever. In fact I'd like to see Trump nominate Garland, I'm guessing that the moment his name becomes associated with the POTUS that he'd get run over by the left.
 

Diamondback 2/2

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The thing is, it doesn't take much to be violent. It's not hard to buy a gun in America. It's not hard to master the basics of shooting a gun. What's hard to do is to instill in people the motivation to do it. And that is what the far left has done.

I think people underestimate the hard Left. For one thing, there are far more of them than there are on the Right. They're conditioned to use violence, and to be OK with anything as long as it supports their political aims. The Right has none of that right now, except on the miniscule far Right, who is hated by everyone.

If there is another civil war, it will be long and bloody. And I'm not sure our country will survive it whole. Too many people see themselves as something other than Americans first.

I'm not sure I agree that there are far more "hard" left then there are hard right. Plenty of militia style movements that been under ground for year's. As for actions taken, yes the left has had some incidents of using force, but not near as much or as heavy as the right. The far right has attacked the government, has always taken the stance that they will fight. Where the left has taken a more revolutionary/evolutionary approach, use the education system and a generational approach. The hard left has also worked it's way into the justice system and used it as a tool to grind out the right leaning American, or more so the blue collar class. I think we are seeing a lot more of this now come to light. They know if they control the development of the future generations and the legal system on those less educated, they can effectively neutralize the rights base, and I believe that is what has been taking place over the past 40-50 years.

I for one don't see a true civil war, but pockets of revolutional style uprisings. They will be bloody, but regional and issue specific. I think a true civil war would require some form of the government grossly overstepping the constitution, or some circumvent of the government. Say an impeachment attempt of Trump, or Military coup, or an over reaction to regional uprising (think a Trump response to a Occupy wall street type deal that turned somewhat violent) etc, etc...

Not saying civil war is not possible, just that it would most likely come from some form of government overreach vs the far right or far left just deciding to go at it.
 

Diamondback 2/2

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Something else that we can cascade on is how the majority of Americans are not on either side of the spectrum when you actually get down to the issues at hand. I have talked with several Democratic party hardliners who don't really support the far left agenda and vise versa on the hardline republicans. However, the media, social media and our politics are always projected to the extremes. Why is that?

Personally I think it has more to do with big money, then it ever has had to do with the true political issues. Keeping the American people divided on the bullshit issues while the bigger plays are being made behind the scene. Who elects our politicians, well of course the people do, but who funds them to get them out in front of the voters? Who owns the media, social media, who is pulling the strings. We've all heard and read about how Facebook has taken political stances and blocked posts, deleted accounts and blocked people for political reasons. Search engines changing feeds based on political issues, hell YouTube pushing their anti gun agenda. Who owns all that?

Why is there so much fuel tossed on the fire by media news, social media, etc?

Those are the true questions to ask, not what's wrong with outliers of our politics. Far left vs far right, why are we not focusing on the middle ground? Most likely because someone(s), who has lots and lots of money, don't want us too...

My $.02
 

RackMaster

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I think there is a divide in the ability to have a conversation with someone. Everything is so polarized right now, however, if you really sit down and talk with someone who is not of the same "party", I think people have more in common than not. One big issue I see is that many people believe there is no middle ground, it is all or nothing in terms of thought. They view their thoughts as sacred, and if someone doesn't agree, it is a personal attack on their self.

What baffles me is that in a day and age where access to information has never been greater, the populace as a whole appears incredibly uninformed. I am sure it has always been like this, but social media gives more people a voice, so it appears more apparent. It is difficult to have an in depth conversation on an issue and the ramifications of what people believe should happen. People instead opt for the inch deep and a mile wide conversations. Most of these conversations with people end up being whatever big article was shared on social media and individuals attempting to one up each other over whatever 30 seconds of wikipedia they could do.

The end result of that reminds me of being in school. There are people who cram information for an event and then purge it, retaining little moving forward. Then there are students who are trying to figure out what they are being taught, how and where it applies in the real world, and what information is useful to bring with them going forward.

Social media algorithms are designed to only show you what is related to your "likes", search history, etc.; so people get stuck in an echo chamber. I honestly believe it is a major cause of societal break down.
 

Ooh-Rah

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Here is a 1 hour old example of what ails all of us. As much as we Conservatives like to claim that you cannot talk to a liberal because they are all 'triggered', Dave (very liberal) made an attempt at dialog. I responded, then Jeff came in and fucked everything up. I mended fences with Dave via PM, but who can blame the "Dave's" of the world for digging in and going extreme when this is the response they get after trying to spur conversation?

1530238256963.png
 
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