Trump Presidency, Part II

AWP

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If you somehow missed it, the original thread was locked. I won't speak for the entire staff, but a majority when I say it was a long time coming.

The last 18 months or so that center around the election and its aftermath have deeply divided the country. It stands to reason this division will manifest itself here on Shadowspear and that's normal and expected. Discussion is great, but some of it has gotten out of hand.

“Don't raise your voice, improve your argument." ― Desmond Tutu
Sadly, some of you do this (raise your voice) time and time again. It has to stop.

“In all debates, let truth be thy aim, not victory, or an unjust interest.” ― William Penn
We're actually pretty good about this, we're usually very good about challenging sources. As I beat into the ground, "perception is reality" but you can better change another's perception through facts than name-calling, personal attacks, strawman arguments, etc....ALL of which we've seen over the last 18-ish months. Emotions are garbage, facts are king.

I'm not shy about heated debate or passionate discourse, but when people get crazy or rude, that's a buzz kill. There's got to be a better code of conduct, some basic etiquette. Mos Def
Oddly, the youngest guy has the best take here. There's got to be some basic etiquette and candidly, some of you haven't done that over the last few months. This board is amazing if for no other reason than the lack of group think, the lack of an echo chamber. It does however suffer from a common problem in America: two entrenched sides yelling at each other and doing NOTHING to further the argument. No one expects you to change your mind, but others just might change theirs. You can argue with another poster, but be aware that others are watching, reading, and maybe, just maybe they are thinking.

I'm locking this to give the staff a chance to add their thoughts before we open it for discussion. We aren't going to stifle your opinion, but we'll be damned if we'll allow the discussion to become another dumpster fire.
 

CDG

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Conduct yourselves in this thread like you would in a joint force planning cell, not in a team room. People may post things that you think are the most asinine, ignorant, dangerous views possible. You need to take a deep breath, and refute points. We, the staff, are not going to tolerate personal attacks, emotional outbursts, or needless sarcasm designed to instigate. We expect better of the membership here. We are all going to be paying very close attention to this thread after the way the last one went down, and the tolerance is much lower now. We discussed it and came up with this way to start a new thread so that there is no confusion or ambivalence. There will be no more warnings. It will be points, thread bans, and further escalation as required if we see the things we saw in the previous Trump Presidency thread.
 

Ooh-Rah

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No one expects you to change your mind, but others just might change theirs. You can argue with another poster, but be aware that others are watching, reading, and maybe, just maybe they are thinking.
This from @AWP is what caused me personally to back out of actively participating the more fiery threads. At the end of the day, it in unlikely that after posting your most glorious comeback, a masterful combination of sarcasm and personal wit, subtlety written in a way to send the intended target into overload, that the recipient of your wordsmithing is going to have an epiphany and change their belief. But....restating your point, perhaps with a personal example, or coming up with another way of trying to relate what you are saying to the readers, well that might actually cause a person to rethink their position. Or not...but at least you remained classy in your attempt.

What draws me to ShadowSpear every day (multiple times per day), is the professional environment that has been created here. It is not something that happened with the last mod-election, hell it is not something that happened with the last 5 mod elections. It is a culture that has been created by all of the members since the inception of this site, and then re-enforced by an aligned site staff.

It is a culture that has morphed over the years; for the better I would submit. Anyone who has been here for any length of time remembers the dog-piles that would happen in the welcome threads. No more. And that is a good thing. New members have the opportunity to introduce themselves and check out the board without fear of getting trounced by multiple members because they didn't know that all the letters in SEAL were to be capitalized, and that saying they will "die before they quit" is a trigger phrase for most of the members here.

I will finish with this. There is nothing wrong with using the "report a post" function that is linked to every single post on this board. If conversations take an ugly turn, report it. You are not 'ratting out' a member, you are helping to keep a professional environment in our little part of the internet that many here consider closer to family than those they live with.

And that's what I have to say about that.
 

Devildoc

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...and away we go!

I realize that while the media crisis du jour is on Trump's what-he-said/what-she-said, the whole Russia collusion thing is like hearing crickets. I wonder if the press will be even more reticent to report on Trump v Russia now that the whole HRC/Clinton Foundation/Russia thing is out, and I wonder if there are any cross-connections there.
 

Ooh-Rah

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I wonder if the press will be even more reticent to report on Trump v Russia now that the whole HRC/Clinton Foundation/Russia thing is out, and I wonder if there are any cross-connections there.
Out of simple curiosity, and since you posed the questions....what are you gut thoughts?
- Will the press will be even more reticent to report on Trump v Russia?
- Do you think there are any cross-connections?
 

Marauder06

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Out of simple curiosity, and since you posed the questions....what are you gut thoughts?
- Will the press will be even more reticent to report on Trump v Russia?
- Do you think there are any cross-connections?
I haven't been following the situation closely, but my sense is that unless there's a smoking gun and it points directly at either Sec. Clinton or Pres. Trump, this issue is going to fade from public view. Too many other distractions. "What about her emails? What about his Russia connections... oh look, war with North Korea! /squirrel"
 

BloodStripe

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I miss the days of being a child where you can be so ignorant to many of the "issues" facing the world. And thanks to smart phones and news alerts every day we can't escape it. Every morning I am half afraid to look at my phone to see how many news alerts are on there, about what the POTUS did or didn't do, or what blew up, or what NK tested, etc., etc.
 

Ooh-Rah

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I miss the days of being a child where you can be so ignorant to many of the "issues" facing the world. And thanks to smart phones and news alerts every day we can't escape it. Every morning I am half afraid to look at my phone to see how many news alerts are on there, about what the POTUS did or didn't do, or what blew up, or what NK tested, etc., etc.
That's a really good point. In fact I just had this conversation with my recently retired mom. She called me 'really upset' about how the world was about to slip off of the universe; my response was this:

"Mom. Up until not that long ago you read the newspaper in the morning and then maybe a PM edition. For news you watched Tom Brokaw 30 minutes a night and if you were really into keeping up, you'd read the occasional issue of Time or watch 60 Minutes. There would be a snap-shot focus on a story, and all of the silliness never even made it to air because there was no time.

Now you are retired. You sit at home with CNN on all day and surf the net looking for things to be afraid of. The world has not really changed that much, but the way we receive news has."
 

SaintKP

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I had taken a break from watching the bread and circus we call politics for a while to regain some sanity so I'm somewhat out of the loop on the most recent happenings in the political and international landscape. But I will say that I believe it'll be a matter of time until something else distracts us from "current" events. Whether it be NK, Russia, gun control, or some other unforseen event.

Now onto the question posed by @Ooh-Rah I think the news outlets will continue to report on Russian connections whether they be with Trump or the Clinton Foundation, they will just try to one up each other on who is in the wrong. Atleast until as @Marauder06 said and we get a new event to be distracted/outraged by.

Also deep down I truly believe that everything is connected with varying degrees of closeness, we have become such a connected world whether it be through trade, treaties, alliances etc. That it's impossible to just scoff at the idea that everyone has helped and harmed each other to further advance themselves.


People have always been shitty to one another, we just hear it more easily now.
 

Topkick

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I miss the days of being a child where you can be so ignorant to many of the "issues" facing the world. And thanks to smart phones and news alerts every day we can't escape it. Every morning I am half afraid to look at my phone to see how many news alerts are on there, about what the POTUS did or didn't do, or what blew up, or what NK tested, etc., etc.
Was just wondering the same things earlier today. What happened to the days when I didn't give as much of a fuck about politics. I went to work, went skiing, fishing, etc., drank beer and chased women. I didn't have time to think. Somewhere it all went wrong.😊

-old guy
 
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Devildoc

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Out of simple curiosity, and since you posed the questions....what are you gut thoughts?
- Will the press will be even more reticent to report on Trump v Russia?
- Do you think there are any cross-connections?
I think the press was all hot and bothered by Russia initially because there were so many juicy rumors....that have yet to be confirmed or proven true. Since there's no 'there' there, at least now, they will turn their attention elsewhere, but it won't be on Clinton/Clinton Foundation/Russia. Just won't unless their hands are forced. No, I don't think there is any cross-pollination between the Obama Russian years and the Trump Russian year.

The 24/7 media circus is really interesting. Used to be you got a newspaper, you got early morning news, local at 6, national at 6:30, and local again at 11. And they mostly just put out news. Now it's a 24/7 unending cycle of not just screaming at you what the news is, they are telling you want to think about it.
 

Topkick

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The 24/7 media circus is really interesting. Used to be you got a newspaper, you got early morning news, local at 6, national at 6:30, and local again at 11. And they mostly just put out news. Now it's a 24/7 unending cycle of not just screaming at you what the news is, they are telling you want to think about it.
Everywhere you go. Restaurants, hospitals, dentist, at home, at work.
 

8482farm

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What do you guys think of President Trump's habit of inserting praises, compliments, or positive reinforcements that, sometimes, seem out of place?
 

Ooh-Rah

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What do you guys think of President Trump's habit of inserting praises, compliments, or positive reinforcements that, sometimes, seem out of place?
Allow me to interject for a moment?

Two things that contributed to disaster in the last Presidential thread were members who posted simple links with no text, no explanation. Just a link to a story that may or may not be true, and then sat back and watched the fun. The other igniter were threads that posed questions, but no opinions from the OP. What purpose does that serve? You must have an opinion, or you would not have asked the question.

I'm not calling out any particular members, but if you are going to post in this thread, have a point. Have an opinion. Otherwise, why post it?
 

DocIllinois

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Life was easier when we worried about acne, running the hill in football practice, and being the cool guy with the cool girl. Academics were just a necessary distraction from the important things.
You're an optimistic man, J. Studies show it. ;-)

Back to the future; Nostalgia Increases Optimism

I, on the other hand, am a testy bastard, which may explain the aversion to high school reunions... }:-):hmm:
 

Il Duce

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I miss the days of being a child where you can be so ignorant to many of the "issues" facing the world. And thanks to smart phones and news alerts every day we can't escape it. Every morning I am half afraid to look at my phone to see how many news alerts are on there, about what the POTUS did or didn't do, or what blew up, or what NK tested, etc., etc.
I think a lot of the narrative that 'the media' (however you define it) is to blame for - fill in the blank - is wrong, or at least overblown. But, having said that I'm not sure the constant alerts and updates really do make us better informed - I think to @Ooh-Rah point in the aggregate the news creates themes (not necessarily intentionally) that are pretty destructive - the idea the world is ending, X group of people are evil, etc.

Also, for the record I acknowledge all moderator guidance from the start of this thread and would like to say without dredging up any of the arguments from the last thread notifications of next of kin are extremely difficult. I have been involved in 5 and they tore me up. Being involved in over 100 is incredibly difficult and important - respect @Agoge
 
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