United States & Gun Control discussion.

SkrewzLoose

Something Clever
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If the VP is "counting on" the "legitimate news media" to do anything right, he might have another thing coming. I read that as, "please spin this so it doesn't look like we're the bad guys".
Talk about malarkey...
 

Rangermom

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http://mynortheastoutdoors.com/oak-harbor-council-2nd-amendment/

OAK HARBOR, WA – CITY COUNCIL STANDS UP FOR 2ND AMENDMENT

WOW… this is crazy and great all in the same sense. Thanks to Dave Norris for the share !

An Oak Harbor City Council Member is accused of overstepping his authority when he asked a man with a concealed weapons permit to surrender his gun saying it was “not needed” at the public meeting.


Yes, I have a concealed carry permit and I am carrying at this moment, I would protect any person with my life.​
Lucas Yonkman went to the meeting to listen to a discussion about the city’s gun ban in public parks. He ended up testifying, urging people to support the 2nd amendment.

Watch what happened above. The councilman’s concern about the veteran’s concealed weapon begins about two minutes into the video.
A portion of the Oak Harbor City Council meeting from January 15 was posted below.
 

JBS

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All I can say is, in this day and age, my personal reading of the American people- specifically the "pro-gun" crowd, I'll characterize it like this:

Any attempt to seize firearms in this country, just imagine several hundred thousand Christopher Dorners- except unlike Dorner, no personal death wish and no desire to hurt innocents. I don't mean to trivialize Dorner's murderous rampage. He was scum, he was a murderer and I'm glad he's gone. My point is that ample consideration should be given to just how many resources were allocated to Dorner- someone with only relatively modest training (as far as we know) and an unstable psychological state. A thousand Chris Dorners would be devastating. Ten thousand would cripple us. And I genuinely believe that if there were any attempt at seizing guns, this is exactly what the government would spawn; perhaps worse.

I genuinely hope for the sake of the tranquility of my country- now and for the foreseeable future- that no elected buffoon takes it upon himself to attempt strip away liberties that have been purchased by the bloodshed of generations of patriots.
 

Frank S.

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Any attempt to seize firearms in this country, just imagine several hundred thousand Christopher Dorners- except unlike Dorner, no personal death wish and no desire to hurt innocents. I don't mean to trivialize Dorner's murderous rampage.
I don't think Dorner needed to be referenced in this thread. I see the point you are trying to make but:
http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/02/toward-a-black-jesse-james/273162/
Extract:
[...]Four days before her death, Monica Quan had news for her team. Quan, an assistant coach at Cal State Fullerton, held up her hand to show off an engagement ring. The players screamed and huddled around her for a closer look, head coach Marcia Foster recalled. Quan was as happy as her basketball players, and later said she wished she had recorded the moment. She loved to have pictures taken with her friends. She wanted a big wedding, and her fiance, Keith Lawrence, a public safety officer at USC, was trying to work extra hours to make it possible....
The couple was talking about who would be in the wedding party. They had yet to pick a date and a location when they were found Feb. 3, shortly after the Super Bowl, shot to death in their car in the parking structure of their Irvine condominium complex. They had multiple gunshot wounds. There were no signs of a robbery, and investigators ruled out a murder-suicide. The next day, Quan's father got a call from a close friend of the family.
Randal Quan, a former captain with the Los Angeles Police Department, and Wayne Caffey, a detective with the Southeast Division, had known one another for almost 25 years. Caffey recalled their conversation. "We lost her," Quan said. "She's gone." The two men were overwhelmed by the senselessness of the slayings. We don't know anything, Quan said; we don't know what happened. He would later learn that his daughter and her fiance were probably killed by a former LAPD officer who had been fired in 2009; Randal Quan had represented Christopher Jordan Dorner at his termination hearing. What was once incomprehensible -- the deaths of these two young people -- was now considered a revenge killing. The reasons were spelled out in an 11,000-word post police found on a Facebook page that they believe belonged to Dorner, 33, who is now a fugitive. "I never had the opportunity to have a family of my own," Dorner supposedly wrote. "I'm terminating yours." [...]

And I don't want to sidetrack the thread. I think some thought should be put into what Dorner really was, a malcontent with guns and some skills. But a fucking malcontent is all.
 

JBS

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The page you linked to talks about how there have been some who have tried to "redeem" Christopher Dorner. The title of the article even references Jesse James, echoing the tendency for some to create folk heroes out of public enemies.

At no time- on any level- have I ever looked on this guy or commented on him as anything other than a virus that needed to be wiped out. If you saw my previous posts, I've stated I thought he was being not only empathized with (by some) but also hyped a little by the media into more than he actually was. One CNN reporter made the statement that Dorner was "taking the fight to the LAPD". I thought that was asinine. I even commented on how his manifesto showed that he was delusional.

I brought him up in this thread because he's totally relevant. How? It's pretty obvious: he brought hundreds of square miles of California to a complete standstill, and literally took the focus of hundreds of LEO's for days. There's a concrete lesson in that. I can look at that situation and recognize that when someone is pushed past the point where they no longer feel their wrongs can ever see redress, the amount of disruption to society they can create is enormous. Attempting to take guns away from citizens by force, if it ever happened, would create thousands of people just as profoundly disgruntled as Dorner, past the point where they felt their concerns could ever be redressed. We can't talk about gun control without considering the consequences of attempting to disarm the public. This country won't be like others that were quietly accepting. Our people are different.
 

Frank S.

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JBS, I understood your disclaimers. "I don't mean to trivialize Dorner's murderous rampage. He was scum, he was a murderer and I'm glad he's gone."
There are other points flowing from the Dorner situation which I'll try to PM.
 

Casimir

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In other news, Missouri introduced a bill that, if passed, would call for the destruction or surrender of assault weapons.
 

0699

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VA House and Senate passed a bill (awaiting signature by the governor) that would make CC permit holders names non-releasable information, preventing newspapers or other busy bodies from releasing names as happened up in NY. :thumbsup:
 

Chopstick

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I cant believe that Colorado is this stupid. I hope Magpul sends a strong message and is already scouting the location of their new headquarters in Wyoming or Montana. Tell Colorado lawmakers to screw their lame ass amendment. I hope Magpul takes their $85+ million out of the state economy. Perhaps legislators can make up the difference in marijuana sales.
http://www.denverpost.com/breakingn...mmo-magazine-maker-threatens-leave-state-over

Colorado's largest and most profitable manufacturer of high-capacity ammunition magazines has vowed to leave the state if lawmakers pass a measure banning the devices — a move officials with the company say could cost hundreds of jobs and upward of $85 million in potential spending this year.
Magpul's threat has Democratic lawmakers scrambling to strike a balance that remains true to their goal of limiting the number of rounds a magazine can hold without frightening off businesses.
"If we're able to stay in Colorado and manufacture a product, but law-abiding citizens of the state were unable to purchase the product, customers around the state and the nation would boycott us for remaining here," said Doug Smith, Magpul's chief operating officer. "Staying here would hurt our business."
House Bill 1224 bans individuals from possessing high-capacity ammunition magazines of more than 15 rounds — an amendment earlier in the week raised this number from 10 rounds — but allows manufacturers to stay in Colorado and produce the devices.
 

Diamondback 2/2

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I cant believe that Colorado is this stupid. I hope Magpul sends a strong message and is already scouting the location of their new headquarters in Wyoming or Montana. Tell Colorado lawmakers to screw their lame ass amendment. I hope Magpul takes their $85+ million out of the state economy. Perhaps legislators can make up the difference in marijuana sales.
http://www.denverpost.com/breakingn...mmo-magazine-maker-threatens-leave-state-over

Texas would be a better option for Magpul than Wyoming or Montana (from a logistical and taxes standpoint). But I am glad to see many of these companies standing up to the lawmakers. Larue and Olympic arms have both made policies to not sell any goods to any NY government offices or personnel (i.e. no LEO's can buy their products).
 

Karoshi

Bringing Space to the Warfighter.
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So I wonder how much this "act for the immediate preservation of the public peace, health, and safety" is going to cost me during my next gun purchase? Anyone have a rough estimate of how much the "direct and indirect" costs incurred would be during a background investigation? Looks like I may need to save my purchases for when I visit my sister at FE Warren.


COLORADO HOUSE BILL 13-1228 said:
First Regular Session
Sixty-ninth General Assembly
STATE OF COLORADO
INTRODUCED
LLS NO. 13-0574.01 Richard Sweetman x4333 HOUSE BILL 13-1228
House Committees Senate Committees
Finance
A BILL FOR AN ACT
101 CONCERNING REQUIRING THE COLORADO BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION
102 TO RECOUP THE COST OF PERFORMING AN INSTANT CRIMINAL
103 BACKGROUND CHECK PRIOR TO THE TRANSFER OF A FIREARM.
Bill Summary
(Note: This summary applies to this bill as introduced and does
not reflect any amendments that may be subsequently adopted. If this bill
passes third reading in the house of introduction, a bill summary that
applies to the reengrossed version of this bill will be available at
http://www.leg.state.co.us/billsummaries.)
The Colorado bureau of investigation (CBI) shall impose a fee for
performing an instant criminal background check pursuant to the transfer
of a firearm. The amount of the fee shall not exceed the total amount of
direct and indirect costs incurred by CBI in performing the background
HOUSE SPONSORSHIP
Court, Duran, Ferrandino, Fields, Fischer, Foote, Hullinghorst, Levy, McCann, Melton,
Moreno, Pabon, Peniston, Rosenthal, Ryden, Salazar, Schafer, Williams
SENATE SPONSORSHIP
Heath,
Shading denotes HOUSE amendment. Double underlining denotes SENATE amendment.
Capital letters indicate new material to be added to existing statute.
Dashes through the words indicate deletions from existing statute.
check.
The amount collected as fees shall be transferred to the state
treasurer for credit to the instant criminal background check cash fund
(fund), which fund is created in the bill.
1 Be it enacted by the General Assembly of the State of Colorado:
2 SECTION 1. In Colorado Revised Statutes, 24-33.5-424, add
3 (3.5) as follows:
4 24-33.5-424. National instant criminal background check
5 system - state point of contact - fee - grounds for denial of firearm
6 transfer - appeal - rule-making - unlawful acts - fund created.
7 (3.5) (a) ON AND AFTER THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF THIS SUBSECTION (3.5),
8 THE BUREAU SHALL IMPOSE A FEE FOR PERFORMING AN INSTANT CRIMINAL
9 BACKGROUND CHECK PURSUANT TO THIS SECTION. THE AMOUNT OF THE
10 FEE SHALL NOT EXCEED THE TOTAL AMOUNT OF DIRECT AND INDIRECT
11 COSTS INCURRED BY THE BUREAU IN PERFORMING THE BACKGROUND
12 CHECK.
13 (b) THE BUREAU SHALL TRANSMIT ALL MONEYS COLLECTED
14 PURSUANT TO THIS SUBSECTION (3.5) TO THE STATE TREASURER, WHO
15 SHALL CREDIT THE SAME TO THE INSTANT CRIMINAL BACKGROUND CHECK
16 CASH FUND, WHICH FUND IS HEREBY CREATED AND REFERRED TO IN THIS
17 SUBSECTION (3.5) AS THE "FUND".
18 (c) THE BUREAU IS AUTHORIZED TO EXPEND SUCH MONEYS FROM
19 THE FUND AS ARE NECESSARY TO PAY THE DIRECT AND INDIRECT COSTS
20 INCURRED BY THE BUREAU IN PERFORMING BACKGROUND CHECKS
21 PURSUANT TO THIS SECTION. THE STATE TREASURER MAY INVEST ANY
22 MONEYS IN THE FUND NOT EXPENDED FOR THE PURPOSE OF THIS SECTION
23 AS PROVIDED BY LAW. THE STATE TREASURER SHALL CREDIT ANY
-2- HB13-1228
INTEREST AND INCOME 1 DERIVED FROM THE DEPOSIT AND INVESTMENT OF
2 MONEYS IN THE FUND TO THE FUND.
3 (d) ANY UNEXPENDED AND UNENCUMBERED MONEYS REMAINING
4 IN THE FUND AT THE END OF A FISCAL YEAR SHALL REMAIN IN THE FUND
5 AND SHALL NOT BE CREDITED TO ANY OTHER FUND. TO THE EXTENT
6 PRACTICABLE, THE BUREAU SHALL USE ANY SUCH REMAINING FUNDS TO
7 REDUCE THE AMOUNT OF THE FEE DESCRIBED IN PARAGRAPH (a) OF THIS
8 SUBSECTION (3.5).
9 (e) THE BUREAU IS AUTHORIZED TO CONTRACT WITH A PUBLIC OR
10 PRIVATE ENTITY FOR SERVICES RELATED TO THE COLLECTION OF THE FEE
11 DESCRIBED IN PARAGRAPH (a) OF THIS SUBSECTION (3.5).
12 SECTION 2. Safety clause. The general assembly hereby finds,
13 determines, and declares that this act is necessary for the immediate
14 preservation of the public peace, health, and safety.
-3- HB13-1228
 

Marine0311

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VA House and Senate passed a bill (awaiting signature by the governor) that would make CC permit holders names non-releasable information, preventing newspapers or other busy bodies from releasing names as happened up in NY. :thumbsup:
That is one step in the right direction.

The problem is the U.S doesn't have enough warriors in government.
 

policemedic

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Texas would be a better option for Magpul than Wyoming or Montana (from a logistical and taxes standpoint). But I am glad to see many of these companies standing up to the lawmakers. Larue and Olympic arms have both made policies to not sell any goods to any NY government offices or personnel (i.e. no LEO's can buy their products).
I'm rather unimpressed by Larue's stance; I'd be more inclined to respect it if they applied it to federal LE and .mil as well.
 

Chopstick

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http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Govern...ernments-With-Strict-Gun-Laws-No-Guns-For-You

Six gun companies have announced plans to stop selling any of their products to any government agency in states that severely limit the rights of private gun ownership.

Disappointed with New York State lawmakers and other jurisdictions around the country who have passed strict gun control legislation, the companies—composed of firearm manufacturers, gunsmiths, and sporting goods retailers—have announced these policies in the past week.
Their various statements emphasize that such laws create a class of government employees with rights and and a class of citizens without rights. Thus, they refuse to aid the enforcement of such inequality.
olympicarms.jpg
 

Casimir

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So glad to see this. Hopefully the gov't, state and federal, will start to realize that consumer power is nothing to trifle with. Especially if larger companies like S&W, Glock or Sig would bring their power to bear on the problem, even just a little.
 

Chopstick

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It doesnt sound like Magpul is screwing around. This from their Facebook Page.
https://www.facebook.com/magpul
We're hearing some rumors that the Gov and the Dem caucus think we are bluffing. Just to clarify for them, then...we're not a political company. We dont play political games. We've made our position very clear, very publicly. We would not survive lying to our customer base, nor would we ever consider it. If you pass this, we will leave, and you will own it. We've already got plans in place to get PMAG manufacturing moved rapidly, and the rest of the company will follow. We will make sure to at least have a small remain-behind operation through the 2014 elections so that we can remind folks why we are gone.
 
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