Career Path to 19th SFG Questions

[Tango-Mike]

I am 34, living in CA, and currently enlisting in the Utah NG. The path that has been recommended is to choose an available MOS that I have an interest in, complete AIT and challenge the REC when I return to the unit. After a lot of research, I also have an interest in "trying out" for a SOT-A if the opportunity shows itself.

If available, I'd like to secure a slot for 35N. After drilling with the unit, I figure I can observe where my best fit would be, whether intel, SOT-A, or SFAS. (I haven't gotten a confirm on MOS availability)

Info I've been told:
1. The guard doesn't prefer to give out REP-63's anymore
2. Upon returning to the state (regardless of unit) you can challenge the REC at anytime
3. This route would be the same and/or faster than the REP-63

Can someone confirm this? There are multiple positions I have an interest in, ie; most 35 series, 13F, etc. I'd imagine that if a unit paid for your training, they would expect you to serve a certain amount of time before trying out for the REC program, especially if you're not in the 19th. Is this a correct assumption?

I do have (limited) prior Army experience that I can explain in detail if needed. I was in long enough to know that the more intel gathered as a civilian the better, since you're still in the position to make changes if necessary. I thank you in advance for your consideration.

 

[AWP]

Unless times have changed, going from a SOT-A to an 18 series was frowned upon in the Guard. I'll defer to @lindy on this one, but the time and money involved to get a SOT-A MOSQ, not to mention manning issues, meant commanders wouldn't release a soldier once they were MOSQ. It was very rare to see a soldier leave the MID and go off to SFAS. The SIGDET and SVCDET were different stories because were always overmanned at E-5 and below.

 

[Tango-Mike]

In an effort to keep it short, I left out a few things. I meant that I also have a lot of interest in SOT-A as a career. So if the opportunity was there and it seemed like something I would be good at, I would stick with that. I've read every site that mentions SOT-A in Google-Fu, and it's still limited. But it sounds like if an Intel slot became available, I need to plan on sticking with it.

Other than 35 series, if I got a slot at something like 13F, am I allowed to drop an SFAS packet as soon as I get back? It seems hard to believe an artillery unit would let a new recruit take off for another unit as soon as he got back from training.

The recruiter recommended going 92G "cook", (due to a short AIT) then challenge the REC. Just kind of sounds like a roll of the dice.

 

[AWP]

Entering an SF battalion from the outside places you at the mercy of your unit, the gaining SF battalion, and State HR Command. While this is not unlike the Active Duty side, there is less potential for replacing a soldier if he punches out of his unit to make a run at SF. You have to also look at it like this: the State and Federal gov't (your IET is "paid" by the Feds through money given to your State, so that kind of evens out) cover the cost of your training. Also, once you have a slot no other recruit can fill said slot. When you report to your unit after AIT the State will expect a return on its investment. So, consider a Company/ Battery commander's position: You go through his unit, become a soldier, and within a year announce your intention to go SF. If you were that commander, how would you react?

You'll need to pay your dues for a few years. MAYBE in an SF Support Company your timeline can be truncated a bit, but typically due to the cost and time involved of getting you MOSQ (there's a higher political and financial dimension at play here, way outside of the unit) commanders are reluctant to release a soldier in their first few years in the Guard.

You're going to have to pay your money and take your chances. No REP-63 at all? Then you're waiting to make a run at SF unless you find a unit and commander (by "commander" I also mean from Company to Brigade level) who is willing to let you go early. I would wager that the more demanding the MOS, and the longer the AIT, the longer you'll have to spend waiting for a conditional release.

 

[Brill]

I'd link up here with @18C4V who can give you all the low down on 19th SFG especially the CA unit. I will tell you from personal experience: it takes a LOT of dedication (or mental illness) and gumption (e.g. in the form of Ben Franklins) to live in one state but drill in another. The National Guard is an expensive hobby.

Regarding going MI to REC...well, that's a sticky wicket. 35-series AITs are long, as is the clearance process so when the unit is able to recruit someone with the pre-reqs (ASVAB score, DLAB, clearable, zero waivers, etc), losing them is a pretty shitty thing to do...especially from the get go. Now, there are some shit hot SF guys who are former SOT-As but all the ones I know, did their team time before going to selection.

In the Guard, you would enlist directly into a 35P3V (not 35N) slot with a focus in a language (19th Group is focused on Pacific rim) and not have to "try out" like you would for a shot at SFAS. I'm sure other folks have stories about good Novembers being on SOT-As but this is post-OEF...I don't see that occurring anymore especially on the Guard side. I have FOUR 35Ps who are experts and gathering "INT"...I have ONE who can tell me what it all means.

Utah has a ton of 35-series positions open (not sure about SF support slots though).

1) Decide if you want to be an 18-series or 35-series
2) Get a new recruiter. @goon175 , can confirm but I'm pretty sure the recruiter gets more "credit" for hard to fill MOSes (18, 35, 37, etc) rather than those whose primary requirement is mirror fogging.

 

[Brill]

@MilkTruckCoPilot , anything to add?

 

[Brill]

In an effort to keep it short, I left out a few things. I meant that I also have a lot of interest in SOT-A as a career.

I assume that you, as a BP guy, are 2/2 in Spanish?

 

[Tango-Mike]

I haven't found a practice DLPT yet, so couldn't tell you my score. Foreign language is a perishable skill but I could study up for it.
PM sent also.

 

[Karoshi]

I haven't found a practice DLPT yet, so couldn't tell you my score. Foreign language is a perishable skill but I could study up for it.
PM sent also.

I would definitely study for it, I took the test unprepared and on short notice. I came in thinking I would take it once to see how it is and prepare to retake it later. I am now fighting to get another shot because I scored high enough for passing yet not high enough for the requirements of my State. My new commander is a bit more understanding than my previous commander, and is trying to help me get through all the required documentation for a waiver to retake the test.

 

[Etype]

Unless times have changed, going from a SOT-A to an 18 series was frowned upon in the Guard. I'll defer to @lindy on this one, but the time and money involved to get a SOT-A MOSQ, not to mention manning issues, meant commanders wouldn't release a soldier once they were MOSQ. It was very rare to see a soldier leave the MID and go off to SFAS. The SIGDET and SVCDET were different stories because were always overmanned at E-5 and below.

Does the National Guard have to release soldiers for selection? I know in active duty, your commander has no say in the matter. There was a former SOT-A on my last time, and an analyst from my last deployment went to selection afterwards.

It may be completely different in the NG though.

 

[AWP]

Does the National Guard have to release soldiers for selection? I know in active duty, your commander has no say in the matter. There was a former SOT-A on my last time, and an analyst from my last deployment went to selection afterwards.

It may be completely different in the NG though.

At one time, yes, but I'm not sure about now. The Guard was rabid about it in the 90's, even my SIGDET caught some flak for trying to bring in a few MOSQ soldiers from another unit. With funding tied into a unit's MOSQ percentage, releasing a qualified soldier was once a big deal...maybe still is, I'm not sure. The only time no one balked was for E-5 to E-6 and higher promotions, but that caused another set of problems we had to work around.

 

[MilkTruckCoPilot]

@MilkTruckCoPilot , anything to add?

Not really, you pretty much hit on all of it.

I do want to beat this point to death though. Make a decision about what you want to be and stick with that. Don't attempt to enlist into SOT-A if you really just want to go to SFAS. If I was your Tm Sgt and found this out after you came into the section, I would have you flogged.

 

[18echo]

Other than 35 series, if I got a slot at something like 13F, am I allowed to drop an SFAS packet as soon as I get back? It seems hard to believe an artillery unit would let a new recruit take off for another unit as soon as he got back from training.

The recruiter recommended going 92G "cook", (due to a short AIT) then challenge the REC. Just kind of sounds like a roll of the dice.

92G AIT is 8 weeks.
13F AIT is 6 weeks.

If a recruiter is trying to sell 92G as the shortest route, he is either woefully undereducated in his own job, or he is lying to you.
Probably both, doesn't matter.

If you are going to pursue SOT-A, continue with Utah.

If you are interested in CMF 18, we can run you through 11B OSUT, or 35 series, about 18 months in an IN or MI company in southern California, then the pipeline.

The process is fairly easy for us to facilitate, challenging for you to complete.

http://www.calguard.ca.gov/A5-19SF/Pages/RequirementsforSpecialForces.aspx

 

[Tango-Mike]

Thanks for all the replies. My only concern on the overall timeline to get into a position is age. I turn 35 next month. Hopefully I can work out a rep-63 or just go the intel route. Thanks.

 

[Tango-Mike]

Also, forgot to mention. Utah doesn't have an infantry unit, so in a Rep-63 contract, I would have to pick another job for the AIT portion, hence why the intel MOS questions. If things were to not work out for any reason, I wouldn't want to be stuck as a cook in a unit in a different state.

 

[LimaOscarSierraTango]

Thanks for all the replies. My only concern on the overall timeline to get into a position is age. I turn 35 next month. Hopefully I can work out a rep-63 or just go the intel route. Thanks.

If you want to go anywhere in SOF, you need to get rid of the mentality that age will hinder you. There are plenty of guys that have gone to the Q-Course at 40. A lot of people don't think to search on it or ask about it (you aren't the first to have that concern), but age is rarely a factor if you are determined enough.

Good luck with your decision.

Also, did things change re: Rep-63? Last I knew, that was the program ALL Guard members go through before shipping to BCT/AIT/OSUT. Instead of training with their unit, they train with other men/women to learn some of the basics and PT some before shipping out (like, DEP I guess?). This didn't used to be a "SF program". Have things changed? The only people mentioning the program are the ones trying for an 18x contract. Is it a recruiting tool making these guys think they are in a special enlistment program?

 

[Tango-Mike]

Age isn't a hindrance for most people into fitness. But 35 is the age limit for enlistment. (waiverable hopefully) As far as I know REP-63 is 18X for the NG.
Thanks for all the info.

 

[AWP]

REP-63 has existed since the Dawn of Time and is a Guard program; I don't know if the old Reserve Groups had it or something similar under a different name. "18x" used to exist on AD under a different name, but that was a Vietnam era program I believe. If REP-63 isn't offered I think that's more likely because a unit's MOSQ is high enough they don't need guys off the street, not the program being cancelled. One member of this board told me a lot of guys left AD for the Guard after years of the GWOT Op tempo and his company was at a ridiculous MOSQ percentage for the Guard, unheard of numbers in my lifetime.

The short of REP-63 as I knew it in the 90's: You went to an AIT which gave you a background in the MOS you were going for. Some REP-63's who failed/ quit then went to whatever unit possessed their MOS. You had 11B/ 18B, 12B/ 18C, 91whatever (now a 68W)/ 18D, 25C (the old 31C)/ 18E. Now? I don't know.

 

[compforce]

REP-63 has existed since the Dawn of Time

or 1963...

"18x" used to exist on AD under a different name

It was 18X when I was active duty in the late 80's.

The Army established a separate career management field (CMF 18) for SF enlisted men on Oct. 1, 1984. - http://www.specialforcesassociation.org/about/sf-history/

edit - that looked disjointed. The reason I mention the career field timing is because 18X was created after I was in. I was pissed off that I had to do it the old fashioned way. By the time I got SFAS orders and subsequently cock blocked by my chain of command in 1990, there were people graduating the pipeline that came straight off the streets under 18X.

 

[tweeder]

It's hit or miss trying to get a Rep-63 contract. Though the program has been around forever, they don't always have contracts to give. The first time I tried in FL they weren't taking non-prior guys and two years later when I tried again, they were.

We have one guy from 19th in UTAH that I've gone through with thus far and he flew out from the East Coast to Utah just to ship to basic training (12B). There was (and still is) the risk that he may not complete the training, but he has a solid PACE plan and has been successful thus far.

Good luck a MOS that you like as a backup , but remember your ultimate goal to achieve an 18 series MOS and use every attempt you have to finish the training. It's a long ride.