Pardon backfire....

[Kraut783]

Murder of man recently pardoned by Obama

Surveillance video shows murder of man recently pardoned by Obama

Thomas was a former Sunny Side Gang member, according to Michigan State Police spokesperson Lt. David Kaiser. He was busted in one of the biggest drug busts in Saginaw, known as “Operation Sunset.”

In 2008, he was sentenced to 19 years in prison for the distribution of five grams or more of cocaine. The operation effectively ended the Sunny Side Gang.

Thomas was among the 79 people pardoned on Nov. 22 by former President Obama.

Ah, happy ending

 

[Marauder06]

I thought this was going to be about Manning calling out the President.

 

[Blizzard]

So why exactly was this guy pardoned? Were they just drawing names from a hat until they reached the magic number?

 

[AWP]

Think of the felonies I could commit had I known that many pardons were available.

 

[R.Caerbannog]

I think the former POTUS was trying to push back against the Regan era mandatory minimums. Thought people targeted for pardon were those with convictions based on drug possession.

 

[amlove21]

So why exactly was this guy pardoned? Were they just drawing names from a hat until they reached the magic number?

Don't know why, but considering this guy's prior record and amount of crack he was selling (less than 15 grams), apparently 20 years was a bit heavy?

 

[Grunt]

I think many of them -- if not most -- are simply "hail Mary" passes and are made without any rhyme or reason. After all, the prisoner has nothing to lose by asking and everything to gain...so why not.

 

[Kraut783]

Don't know why, but considering this guy's prior record and amount of crack he was selling (less than 15 grams), apparently 20 years was a bit heavy?

Considering eight years later he was tracked down and killed....I'm sure the charge he was arrested for was just the tip of what he was involved in.

And...if he was killed for giving information and being a snitch...he didn't get much of a deal at his sentencing.

 

[amlove21]

Considering eight years later he was tracked down and killed....I'm sure the charge he was arrested for was just the tip of what he was involved in.

And...if he was killed for giving information and being a snitch...he didn't get much of a deal.

Is your point here, "He shouldn't have been pardoned, I am glad he was killed when he got out?" Kinda seems like it.

 

[racing_kitty]

Considering eight years later he was tracked down and killed....I'm sure the charge he was arrested for was just the tip of what he was involved in.

And...if he was killed for giving information and being a snitch...he didn't get much of a deal at his sentencing.

Is your point here, "He shouldn't have been pardoned, I am glad he was killed when he got out?" Kinda seems like it.

I can't speak to @Kraut783's line of thinking, but I did not get the gist that he was glad the deceased met his end. I, personally, don't find any joy in the outcome, either. However, wouldn't you agree that >15g of crack cocaine is an awfully small quantity for someone to hold an eight-year grudge over? Especially to the point of ordering and executing a hit on him before he'd even been out of prison for a whole 90 days?

I'd be willing to bet that he was involved in more than just buying a recreational amount of the stuff; however, with the help of a skilled attorney and errors on the part of the prosecution and law enforcement, the possession charge was all that would stick.

 

[amlove21]

I can't speak to @Kraut783's line of thinking, but I did not get the gist that he was glad the deceased met his end. I, personally, don't find any joy in the outcome, either. However, wouldn't you agree that >15g of crack cocaine is an awfully small quantity for someone to hold an eight-year grudge over? Especially to the point of ordering and executing a hit on him before he'd even been out of prison for a whole 90 days?

I'd be willing to bet that he was involved in more than just buying a recreational amount of the stuff; however, with the help of a skilled attorney and errors on the part of the prosecution and law enforcement, the possession charge was all that would stick.

You mean <15g of crack?

Was he involved in more, heinous crap? Who knows. Does the phrase "Play stupid games/win stupid prizes" play here? I guess. I just don't really sign on to the "justice was served because this guy was murdered after our justice system saw fit to release him" thing.

 

[racing_kitty]

You mean <15g of crack?

Was he involved in more, heinous crap? Who knows. Does the phrase "Play stupid games/win stupid prizes" play here? I guess. I just don't really sign on to the "justice was served because this guy was murdered after our justice system saw fit to release him" thing.

Pardon my typo. And you would be the only one reaching that conclusion. There's no justice served in streetside executions.

 

[amlove21]

Pardon my typo. And you would be the only one reaching that conclusion. There's no justice served in streetside executions.

No, I totally agree. That's why I was asking @Kraut783 to clarify what he meant by this-

Ah, happy ending

 

[Kraut783]

While I do not support streetside justice. This person picked the life where streetside justice is the way of life. As I said...for him to be tracked down after so long and taken out like he was...more was going on. Just like the mafia, once in...never out.

Maybe I should have said "Ah, the irony "

 

[amlove21]

While I do not support streetside justice. This person picked the life where streetside justice is the way of life. As I said...for him to be tracked down after so long and taken out like he was...more was going on. Just like the mafia, once in...never out.

Maybe I should have said "Ah, the irony "

Yeah maybe.

 

[Marine0311]

Yeah maybe.

Why do you disagree so strongly with the original comment?

 

[amlove21]

Why do you disagree so strongly with the original comment?

Well, I wanted to clarify what @Kraut783 meant, and he said he meant to say "ironic" as a description of the event. Rather, he said "maybe that was a better way to put it.

It was much more some questions for clarification, just to make sure I understood what the point was. I didn't say I agreed/disagreed with anything, and certainly not strongly. Unless you want to count me saying, "I just don't really sign on to the "justice was served because this guy was murdered after our justice system saw fit to release him" thing." as a strong disagreement.

 

[Marine0311]

Well, I wanted to clarify what @Kraut783 meant, and he said he meant to say "ironic" as a description of the event. Rather, he said "maybe that was a better way to put it.

It was much more some questions for clarification, just to make sure I understood what the point was. I didn't say I agreed/disagreed with anything, and certainly not strongly. Unless you want to count me saying, "I just don't really sign on to the "justice was served because this guy was murdered after our justice system saw fit to release him" thing." as a strong disagreement.

Ah ok. Good to clarify.

 

[Blizzard]

Don't know why, but considering this guy's prior record and amount of crack he was selling (less than 15 grams), apparently 20 years was a bit heavy?

So, I'm not interested in turning this into a lengthy debate, because truth is I don’t care that much, but where did you see info about his prior record?

In the article, and I didn't look anywhere else for the aforementioned reason, it only stated that he was convicted in 2008 of distribution of more than 5 grams of cocaine. No mention of priors or other circumstances except that his arrest evidently helped in the demise of some gang.

Makes me wonder how these pardons are dished out. Tough to imagine how this ding-dong's name comes across Obama's desk. And a pardon is different than simply an early release...or at least it's supposed to be.

 

[amlove21]

So, I'm not interested in turning this into a lengthy debate, because truth is I don’t care that much, but where did you see info about his prior record?

In the article, and I didn't look anywhere else for the aforementioned reason, it only stated that he was convicted in 2008 of distribution of more than 5 grams of cocaine. No mention of priors or other circumstances except that his arrest evidently helped in the demise of some gang.

Makes me wonder how these pardons are dished out. Tough to imagine how this ding-dong's name comes across Obama's desk. And a pardon is different than simply an early release...or at least it's supposed to be.

No worries, I am not all about it either.

Here is an article containing his priors- granted, he's no angel, and he'd never seen jail time before, but he 100% had distributed cocaine. One conviction for use and 2 probation charges. When he pled for the crack conviction (less than 15 grams, 14.88) he got 21 years.

As for the pardons, it's my understanding that it's basically a legal application process- send in a request to the President, he/his staff reviews it and may or may not grant clemency or a pardon after examining the facts. To be clear, Obama didn't pardon him, he commuted his sentence.