Prior Service and DEP Discharge....

[MrGrimm09]

Greetings, All.

I recently chose not to ship for 11B OSUT with the National Guard. As a Prior Service Air Force and KY Air National Guardsman, I've got a few concerns that I was hoping to receive some guidance/advice on.

I've communicated with my Recruiter clearly and effectively, citing some personal reasons (marital issues/pregnancy hardships) that sprang up mere days before my scheduled departure. In order to cover my own backside, I've reached out to said recruiter multiple times, the most recent interaction culminating in a testy conversation with his supervisor explaining to me:
A) That I "have no business contacting (insert recruiter's name) or anyone else at the recruiting station or unit armory"
B) That I shouldn't "be writing any memorandums regarding any justification of not shipping to attend my required training"
C) That my discharge is a "DEP (Delayed Entry Program) Discharge"
D) That my discharge paperwork will be "sent to me at some point after October 1st (beginning of the next fiscal year).

My questions/concerns are:
1) Should I be writing memos to any certain authorities regarding my reasons for not shipping?
2) Should I be seeking legal council regarding my current predicament? (a concern of being considered AWOL?).
3) Should I be concerned about any foul play appearing in my discharge paperwork? (Should just be an Entry Level Separation ELS, correct?)
4) How does this affect my ability to rejoin other service components?

After having left the KY ANG to join the Marine Corps (active component), I sustained an injury at Parris Island. Upon being discharged under "Convenience of the Government", I've just been trying to get my career back on track. Being a E-2 (had to take an admin demotion to join USMC) with almost 7 years of service has proven to be a thorn in my side. Now, with my 'refusal to ship" ( for hardship reasons), I'd love nothing more to return to the Air National Guard where I don't have to go through Basic Training for a 3rd time. (I'm qualified in 2 AFSC's, surely I'll be an asset).

Any and all words are welcomed and appreciated.

With respect,
Tim

 

[Marine0311]

I'll need more details but unless you signed a hard contract you don't have to ship.

I remember many a DEP person simply saying no and backing out and going to the local RS tk sign some administrative paper to drop out of the DEP.

 

[MrGrimm09]

I'll need more details but unless you signed a hard contract you don't have to ship.

I remember many a DEP person simply saying no and backing out and going to the local RS tk sign some administrative paper to drop out of the DEP.

As far as a “hard contract” goes, I was under the impression that I had, in fact signed such a contract. I’d always been told that the National Guard doesn’t have a DEP, hence my concern regarding being told that I’m receiving a DEP discharge. I was taught that with the national guard, you’re enlisting directly into the unit you’re being assigned to.

However, this recruiter told me that I was never ACTUALLY assigned to said unit, that I was actually assigned to the “Recruit Sustainment Program (RSP) for the state.

According to the GI Rights Hotline, I’ll be receiving an Entry Level Separation because I haven’t completed my “Initial Entry Training (IET), which in this case, was 11B OSUT.

 

[Ooh-Rah]

All right @Corius23 , you are up!

 

[Corius23]

Greetings, All.

I recently chose not to ship for 11B OSUT with the National Guard. As a Prior Service Air Force and KY Air National Guardsman, I've got a few concerns that I was hoping to receive some guidance/advice on.

I've communicated with my Recruiter clearly and effectively, citing some personal reasons (marital issues/pregnancy hardships) that sprang up mere days before my scheduled departure. In order to cover my own backside, I've reached out to said recruiter multiple times, the most recent interaction culminating in a testy conversation with his supervisor explaining to me:
A) That I "have no business contacting (insert recruiter's name) or anyone else at the recruiting station or unit armory"
B) That I shouldn't "be writing any memorandums regarding any justification of not shipping to attend my required training"
C) That my discharge is a "DEP (Delayed Entry Program) Discharge"
D) That my discharge paperwork will be "sent to me at some point after October 1st (beginning of the next fiscal year).

My questions/concerns are:
1) Should I be writing memos to any certain authorities regarding my reasons for not shipping?
2) Should I be seeking legal council regarding my current predicament? (a concern of being considered AWOL?).
3) Should I be concerned about any foul play appearing in my discharge paperwork? (Should just be an Entry Level Separation ELS, correct?)
4) How does this affect my ability to rejoin other service components?

After having left the KY ANG to join the Marine Corps (active component), I sustained an injury at Parris Island. Upon being discharged under "Convenience of the Government", I've just been trying to get my career back on track. Being a E-2 (had to take an admin demotion to join USMC) with almost 7 years of service has proven to be a thorn in my side. Now, with my 'refusal to ship" ( for hardship reasons), I'd love nothing more to return to the Air National Guard where I don't have to go through Basic Training for a 3rd time. (I'm qualified in 2 AFSC's, surely I'll be an asset).

Any and all words are welcomed and appreciated.

With respect,
Tim

I can offer little in the ways of the National Guard as I do not recruit for them, just Active Duty Army and Army Reserves. However, I do have a couple of contacts who are National Guard recruiters and I will reach out on your behalf.

From what I have seen on the Active Duty/Reserve side is, just as @Marine0311 said, you do not have to ship and whatever your reason may be is up to you to relay to your recruiter. We refer to those who do not ship as DEP Losses and the only stipulation around you joining the Army after having DEP Lossed in the past is that you have to wait 6 months before doing so.

From what I’ve gathered from your post, it seems as though your recruiter and the station commander have written you off as a waste of their time since you did not ship. This, to me, is unbecoming of them as professional NCO’s. As recruiters, we are not dealing with numbers and slots, we deal with human lives and too many recruiters/station commanders have lost sight of that, yours included.

Give me some time to reach out to my contacts and I will get back to you. Cheers!

 

[MrGrimm09]

I can offer little in the ways of the National Guard as I do not recruit for them, just Active Duty Army and Army Reserves. However, I do have a couple of contacts who are National Guard recruiters and I will reach out on your behalf.

From what I have seen on the Active Duty/Reserve side is, just as @Marine0311 said, you do not have to ship and whatever your reason may be is up to you to relay to your recruiter. We refer to those who do not ship as DEP Losses and the only stipulation around you joining the Army after having DEP Lossed in the past is that you have to wait 6 months before doing so.

From what I’ve gathered from your post, it seems as though your recruiter and the station commander have written you off as a waste of their time since you did not ship. This, to me, is unbecoming of them as professional NCO’s. As recruiters, we are not dealing with numbers and slots, we deal with human lives and too many recruiters/station commanders have lost sight of that, yours included.

Give me some time to reach out to my contacts and I will get back to you. Cheers!

Your generosity is deeply appreciated.Thank you!

 

[Corius23]

Your generosity is deeply appreciated.Thank you!

I have spoken with a friend of mine who is a National Guard recruiter and in his words “If they don’t ship they’ll get discharged and get an NGB-22 (National Guard version of a DD-214).” When I asked him if the NGB-22 would negatively affect you in any way, he replied “It shouldn’t, depending on what the reasoning was for not shipping.” Based on your reasoning, I see nothing that would affect you negatively. He also said that you wouldn’t be able to join again until after 6 months from the date of your discharge, which is standard.

Let me know if there is anything else I can help with. Cheers!

 

[AWP]

Fucking metal...

 

[MrGrimm09]

I have spoken with a friend of mine who is a National Guard recruiter and in his words “If they don’t ship they’ll get discharged and get an NGB-22 (National Guard version of a DD-214).” When I asked him if the NGB-22 would negatively affect you in any way, he replied “It shouldn’t, depending on what the reasoning was for not shipping.” Based on your reasoning, I see nothing that would affect you negatively. He also said that you wouldn’t be able to join again until after 6 months from the date of your discharge, which is standard.

Let me know if there is anything else I can help with. Cheers!

That’s great to hear! That fast response was great, btw. Thank you for your time.

my concern was that I was being blown off and that the narrative reasoning For me not shipping wouldn’t be annotated properly.

In your experience, do most DEP Losses have to sign anything in person?

 

[Corius23]

That’s great to hear! That fast response was great, btw. Thank you for your time.

my concern was that I was being blown off and that the narrative reasoning For me not shipping wouldn’t be annotated properly.

In your experience, do most DEP Losses have to sign anything in person?

Yes there is some paperwork that you will have to sign. I’m sure it is different paperwork than that of Active Duty or Reserves. As for your narrative reasoning, my hope would be that the recruiter/station commander wouldn’t screw you over in such a way that you were ineligible to join again. Chances are they’re just pissed off to be taking a loss and will get over it upon the beginning of the next recruiting month.

 

[MrGrimm09]

Yes there is some paperwork that you will have to sign. I’m sure it is different paperwork than that of Active Duty or Reserves. As for your narrative reasoning, my hope would be that the recruiter/station commander wouldn’t screw you over in such a way that you were ineligible to join again. Chances are they’re just pissed off to be taking a loss and will get over it upon the beginning of the next recruiting month.

So, is it fishy that I’ve been explicitly told that I will NOT be coming in to sign any paperwork?

I’m deeply concerned that I’m being purposefully repelled by the recruiting staff here so that they can list the narrative reasoning for me not shipping in a dishonest manner; that someone somewhere is filing my paperwork in such a way that it looks like I just flatout didn’t show up to ship and that I ghosted everyone.

These “low-level” recruiters I’m speaking to seem to be misguiding me (saying that I don’t have to sign any paperwork and such.)

Am I off-base with my concerns? How can I confirm whether or not I’m being mishandled. Who should I contact if I’m being purposefully mishandled?

I apologize for the additional concerns, but as we discuss this issue, it become clearer to me that my recruiters are handling me in a dishonest, stonewall-ish manner.

Its been suggested by some personal contacts that I wrote to an Ohio congressman (I’m a KY resident) regarding my predicament.

 

[Ooh-Rah]

I’m deeply concerned that I’m being purposefully repelled by the recruiting staff here so that they can list the narrative reasoning for me not shipping in a dishonest manner; that someone somewhere is filing my paperwork in such a way that it looks like I just flatout didn’t show up to ship and that I ghosted everyone.

With all respect to the Army and Marine recruiters on the board, what you fear would not surprise me one bit. In my 5 years as a Sears District Manager, the almost indescribable pressure to sell appliance extended warranties was more than some could take and they’d quit.

I watched some amazing people fired after years of service because they could not hit their warranty numbers.

It got to the point where we would do/say anything just to try and keep our job for one more month. So does it surprise me that a sales person (recruiter) would bend/skirt the rules to avoid whatever repercussions they receive for not hitting their numbers?

Nope.

When you leave your employees no choice but to be dishonest to survive in their jobs, they will be.

 

[Corius23]

So, is it fishy that I’ve been explicitly told that I will NOT be coming in to sign any paperwork?

I’m deeply concerned that I’m being purposefully repelled by the recruiting staff here so that they can list the narrative reasoning for me not shipping in a dishonest manner; that someone somewhere is filing my paperwork in such a way that it looks like I just flatout didn’t show up to ship and that I ghosted everyone.

These “low-level” recruiters I’m speaking to seem to be misguiding me (saying that I don’t have to sign any paperwork and such.)

Am I off-base with my concerns? How can I confirm whether or not I’m being mishandled. Who should I contact if I’m being purposefully mishandled?

I apologize for the additional concerns, but as we discuss this issue, it become clearer to me that my recruiters are handling me in a dishonest, stonewall-ish manner.

Its been suggested by some personal contacts that I wrote to an Ohio congressman (I’m a KY resident) regarding my predicament.

I should have confirmed the Guard’s procedures with my friend before replying to you and I didn’t. For that I apologize and I take ownership of my mistake. That being said, you are not required to sign any paperwork after failing to ship. You will just receive your NGB-22 from the RSP. Hope this helps!

 

[Corius23]

With all respect to the Army and Marine recruiters on the board, what you fear would not surprise me one bit. In my 5 years as a Sears District Manager, the almost indescribable pressure to sell appliance extended warranties was more than some could take and they’d quit.

I watched some amazing people fired after years of service because they could not hit their warranty numbers.

It got to the point where we would do/say anything just to try and keep our job for one more month. So does it surprise me that a sales person (recruiter) would bend/skirt the rules to avoid whatever repercussions they receive for not hitting their numbers?

Nope.

When you leave your employees no choice but to be dishonest to survive in their jobs, they will be.

I thought I had it rough as an Army Recruiter...then I talked to the Marine Recruiters. Their life is not an easy one.

 

[Ooh-Rah]

I thought I had it rough as an Army Recruiter...then I talked to the Marine Recruiters. Their life is not an easy one.

I was not a recruiter but I have a buddy who was.

When “adapt, improve and overcome” turns into “lie, cheat and steal”, the recruiters who want to play fair end up on the bottom of the scorecard if they don’t cheat too.

 

[Marine0311]

I thought I had it rough as an Army Recruiter...then I talked to the Marine Recruiters. Their life is not an easy one.

You wouldn't believe me the stories I heard after I enlisted about my former recruiters from the RS I came from. I mean you would but you better have a drink or two.

 

[LimaPanther]

Having been an Army Recruiter years ago and listing to me grandson, who is a recruiter now, nothing has changed except today it is a station mission and back then it was an individual mission. Try making an individual mission of 5 or 6 per month to 4 or 5 per station now. But mission is still mission. This month you make it and you are great. Miss next month and you are whale shit. Miss 2 months and your career in the Army is threatened.

True facts: When I was a station commander of a multiman station in West Virginia we had the IG come through. When the inspection was through, the CSM, myself, and 2 other NCOs were informed that that there were problems in the BN and we were the cause. We were given 3 choices: Retire, request transfer, or get releaved. I requested transfer to Korea so I could be granted my next duty station stateside. The CSM retired. Unsure of the other 2. I came back from Korea and was assigned as 1SG at Campbell as an E-7 when I got orders to go back on recruiting as a multiman station commander in Kansas City, KS. Later I got picked to travel the US to retrain failing recruiters. While in TX I ran across one of my former recruiters from WV that was now with the IG team. I asked how I got put back on recruiting duty after being blackballed. He stated they discovered later that the 4 of us had not been the cause but had been keeping the BN together. The Army says that they assign their top NCOs to Recruiting and Drill Sgt duty but they don't tell you that those 2 jobs can kill a military career.