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Message: [QUOTE="Fl_Ag, post: 501374, member: 11041"] First, I want to say thanks to@757 was starting this thread. This is a subject I'm passionate about and always seeking more information on. I was following closely in the SA thread and doing my own fact-checking on the side. Although my stance is almost a close mirror of [USER=2530]@CDG[/USER]'s, one of the books I have sitting on my desk, waiting to begin, is a pro-Palestinian analysis on the conflict – trying to better understand the “other side.” I’m starting that one up after assessment in a few weeks. Second, [USER=7217]@Ocoka[/USER], you're opening post on this thread is legendary - holy shit. Now into some actual content. [USER=11691]@Serenity[/USER], I appreciate your willingness to present the opposing side. Yes, those numbers from 2014 suck, they really do. However, as [USER=11430]@757[/USER] beat me to it, Hamas is notorious for placing civilians around military targets and military personnel/structures/resources in civilian population centers and that quote from his IDF friend is actually a bull's eye analogy for just that. And yes, there are still a lot more Palestinian military casualties over Israeli military casualties – the Israelis are damn good fighters. If you review the metrics from the Yom Kippur War, Israeli military casualties were a small, small fraction compared to its enemies. If we’re going to discuss asymmetry or abuse of one side by the other, I don’t believe we should be citing military casualties and the way you presented your numbers skews your own point. I hope that is neutral because I mean it as such. I’ll present the numbers from that war if anybody cares for them. Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but this is what I’m tracking: the pattern over the last two decades has consisted of mainstream uproar over Israeli settlements, Israel disengaging those settlement efforts, and an extremist group stepping into the vacuum almost instantaneously to harbor fellow extremists and function as a staging point for violent attacks in Israel and the surrounding areas. The most notable example is, you guessed it, Hamas. Israel disengaged from Gaza in 2005 and by2007 the Fatah state was overrun by Hamas who has since controlled the area and we are all-too-familiar with what those nut cases are capable of. A second example is Hezbollah’s shit show. Israel occupied a portion of Southern Lebanon in response to the group’s attacks on Northern Israel resulting in mass civilian casualties. Following the UN’s outrage, Israel withdraws in 2000 and has since had to deal with terror and murder on its northern border stemming exclusively from Hezbollah. Nowadays it seems that the hot topic is Israeli settlements in the West Bank. If Israel officially disengaged its settlements there, I’d be willing to bet a whole lot of money that a terror organization, or possibly one disguised as a political party, would appropriate the fresh territory. So, back to @CDG’s point, Israel does what is necessary to keep its people safe. It’s not pretty and from what I hear from folks who have been there, it is quite sad (I have not yet, but am planning a Greece/Israel dive trip this Summer with some extra time to absorb the culture in Israel), but at the end of the day it’s effective and for Israel and if it's legal, then that's all that matters. Everyone feel free to fact-check me and correct any misinformation. [/QUOTE]

Verification: How many letters are in "ShadowSpear?"