Why Is No One Talking About 5th-Generation Warfare?

Xenophon

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Some very interesting but pretty esoteric work is being done by military theorists on the topic (ex: book 1, book 2) but a podcast I heard recently provides the best summation of the threat itself, some real-world implications, and a potential path forward on the issue. It's worth listening to, but that could be my own predilections for a neat, coherent theory which ties contemporary Western cultural trends (book 3) with larger, potentially existential, threats.

It's sobering. The notion that an entire population could be effectively suppressed with information, but not because of the actions of any particular actor, such that no one can actually cycle through an OODA loop and forge a path out of the chaos seems like the actual "biggest" generational threat -- much more dangerous to long-term survival than a certain nation-state in the pacific. (Albeit one that's more immediate, depending on who you listen to, which goes back to....5th Gen War. Spooky.)

Is anyone else giving thought to this?
 

R.Caerbannog

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Some very interesting but pretty esoteric work is being done by military theorists on the topic (ex: book 1, book 2) but a podcast I heard recently provides the best summation of the threat itself, some real-world implications, and a potential path forward on the issue. It's worth listening to, but that could be my own predilections for a neat, coherent theory which ties contemporary Western cultural trends (book 3) with larger, potentially existential, threats.

It's sobering. The notion that an entire population could be effectively suppressed with information, but not because of the actions of any particular actor, such that no one can actually cycle through an OODA loop and forge a path out of the chaos seems like the actual "biggest" generational threat -- much more dangerous to long-term survival than a certain nation-state in the pacific. (Albeit one that's more immediate, depending on who you listen to, which goes back to....5th Gen War. Spooky.)

Is anyone else giving thought to this?
We have been. Check out the 'China threat thread', "protest thread", "police thread", and "all politics thread", if it's still there.

As a nation, we're under attack. Our younger generations are under attack. The ideals that formed our nation are under attack. The people who are attacking the fabric of our nation are either worthless bug eating, kid grooming, elitist assholes and their bureaucrat peons; or home grown useful idiots. Either way they are trash, globalist trash, or brainwashed retards.

Normies are waking up though.

(Oh and said pacific nation state still has a shitload of people in our universities, they have dirt on the kid sniffing head of state, and they own a shitload of our politicians. They're dying and I doubt they'll go quietly into the night.)
 

Xenophon

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As a nation, we're under attack. Our younger generations are under attack. The ideals that formed our nation are under attack.
Just read those treads, thank you. Not really in the 5GW realm; it's content-agnostic, has no actor, and no intended effect. The events in those threads would be "effects" of attacks made by actors from the "Information Warfare" and/or "Operations in the Information Environment" realms. I'll defer to the IW/OIE and PSYOP experts in this forum for more accurate categorizations.

5GW inundates a subject with so much information that the subconscious cannot adequately filter it; the sporadic bursts of attention and dopamine which divert the attention of the subject in multiple directions ("Squirrel! Squirrel!....Squirrel!") prevent the subconscious mind from the deep thought which is a prerequisite for creativity, original ideas, "outside-the-box" thinking, and so forth. This compounds over time. In other words, 5GW disrupts the OODA for a subject because she or he never moves from Observe to Orient; this creates an echo chamber of sorts, as @CQB notes, because no one ever has an original idea. 5GW does not fit into the actor-attack-effect cycle because it can have, but doesn't necessarily have, an actor or intended effect.

How we got here is one thing which certainly deserves discussion. But I wonder what historians will say about 5GW or whatever they decide to call it in 200 years (suggestion if they read this: Collective Thought Paralysis).
 
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Dame

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Just read those treads, thank you. Not really in the 5GW realm; it's content-agnostic, has no actor, and no intended effect. The events in those threads would be "effects" of attacks made by actors from the "Information Warfare" and/or "Operations in the Information Environment" realms. I'll defer to the IW/OIE and PSYOP experts in this forum for more accurate categorizations.

5GW inundates a subject with so much information that the subconscious cannot adequately filter it; the sporadic bursts of attention and dopamine which divert the attention of the subject in multiple directions ("Squirrel! Squirrel!....Squirrel!") prevent the subconscious mind from the deep thought which is a prerequisite for creativity, original ideas, "outside-the-box" thinking, and so forth. This compounds over time. In other words, 5GW disrupts the OODA for a subject because she or he never moves from Observe to Orient; this creates an echo chamber of sorts, as @CQB notes, because no one ever has an original idea. 5GW does not fit into the actor-attack-effect cycle because it can have, but doesn't necessarily have, an actor or intended effect.

How we got here is one thing which certainly deserves discussion. But I wonder what historians will say about 5GW or whatever they decide to call it in 200 years (suggestion if they read this: Collective Thought Paralysis).
Men who stare at goats.
Look into the work of Eugene Kovalenko.
 

Xenophon

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My understanding of 5GW is that it could include anything, everything or something you can't recognize as warfare at all.
Physicists of every stripe have devoted multiple generations to idea that there's a neat, coherent "theory of everything" just waiting to be discovered. Maybe it's off-base to approach 5GW from similar first principles. But I can't convince myself anymore that we can mentally kick this can down the road.
 

Dame

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Physicists of every stripe have devoted multiple generations to idea that there's a neat, coherent "theory of everything" just waiting to be discovered. Maybe it's off-base to approach 5GW from similar first principles. But I can't convince myself anymore that we can mentally kick this can down the road.
So here's what you aren't factoring in: funding.
You may be right. Eugene may be right. Hell, I have folders full of bookmarks on multiple computers labeled "The big TOE."
But here's the thing; money. Biden is spending my non-existent great grandchildren's income tax on "environmentally friendly" fighter jets that will run out of electric power mid-air. What he won't do is pay attention to the known science much less metaphysical science.
Say this over and over:
Funding.
Funding.
Funding.

It don't go nowheres if there ain't no funding. And it takes several sessions (read decades) of our wonderful Congress to get funding even for a #bipartisan #necessary #morallyjust bill to become law.
 

Viper1

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Funding. Fact. “So me what you spend money on, and I’ll tell you what you believe is important.”

Also, look at UK-RUS now. Yes, computers, AI, OSINT, and other electronic mediums are giving us real information and targets, but as every strategist has said, it comes down to the soldier on the ground projecting power through his weapons systems. The Russia paper tiger is showing the dangers of doing war on the cheap with cheap systems and no processes.
 

R.Caerbannog

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Just read those treads, thank you. Not really in the 5GW realm; it's content-agnostic, has no actor, and no intended effect. The events in those threads would be "effects" of attacks made by actors from the "Information Warfare" and/or "Operations in the Information Environment" realms. I'll defer to the IW/OIE and PSYOP experts in this forum for more accurate categorizations.

5GW inundates a subject with so much information that the subconscious cannot adequately filter it; the sporadic bursts of attention and dopamine which divert the attention of the subject in multiple directions ("Squirrel! Squirrel!....Squirrel!") prevent the subconscious mind from the deep thought which is a prerequisite for creativity, original ideas, "outside-the-box" thinking, and so forth. This compounds over time. In other words, 5GW disrupts the OODA for a subject because she or he never moves from Observe to Orient; this creates an echo chamber of sorts, as @CQB notes, because no one ever has an original idea. 5GW does not fit into the actor-attack-effect cycle because it can have, but doesn't necessarily have, an actor or intended effect.

How we got here is one thing which certainly deserves discussion. But I wonder what historians will say about 5GW or whatever they decide to call it in 200 years (suggestion if they read this: Collective Thought Paralysis).
I think you're missing info. Given the time frame between response and length of those threads, I'm guessing you skimmed. Unless... you have a team of people doing the divide and conquer bit with all that reading :ninja:. Go back and read through it. With hindsight, here are some interesting connections to be made.

TLDR: 5th gen warfare has been discussed here, much to the chagrin of various individuals.
 

Xenophon

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With hindsight, here are some interesting connections to be made.
Yessir. And I hope they continue. Military theorists and professionals enjoy a closer relationship than others in the academia-practitioner space, so these kind of discussions have a lot of value to exploit. Thanks to all for pointing me in the right direction.
 
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