Military Bases

[Deleted member 2517]

I could care less at this point. All I consider is the cost of changing all the signs, changing addresses for soldiers living on post, etc.

What it comes down to for me is this- some people are talking about “history” and “fond memories” and the “meaning” behind the names.
I believe it was the Press Secretary who referenced KIA soldiers who left those posts and that was the last time they were in America...

Fuck all that. The memories I have are my friends. I’m committed to the Army, not a single post.

Frankly, Fort Benning blows. I have plenty of meaningful but miserable memories there. So call it what you want. I’ll always know it as The Land God Forgot. Cole Range isn’t getting renamed,Camp Rogers is still out there, all the misery and history of those places is still there.

Most of us have been to Polk at some point, right? Who cares what it’s called. JRTC is going to still be a rape of the soul. Who cares what we call it.

Let’s leave the “lost cause” narrative, stop celebrating the confederacy and just call it something else. I’m tired of this conversation.

 

[Bypass]

I understand the need to change the names but I feel it should be done because we want to not because of some angry Mob. That being said If names are changed they should be union generals.

I think Medal of Honor winners. Change Ft Benning to Ft Audie Murphy.

So Ft Murphy........................................Wait....................

 

[AWP]

As a Southerner raied on the "Lost Cause" and with some 8-10 known ancestors who fought in the war for the South...change the names, but don't be political about it. Look at what the Navy has done with naming ships...just absolute sell outs IMO. We don't need a Fort Reagan or Fort Bush or whatever, we have plenty of generals and MOH winners to choose from.

There will be "dead naming" and we need to accept that. The names, not the men they came from, will mean something to many soldiers. That's fine. If some old timer and hell, I'm in that group, calls it Benning instead of a new name...don't correct us. Roll with it. In time, we'll die off and the names in use by the masses with adjust accordingly. The worst thing you can do after changing the names will be to correct the guys and gals who still call them Benning, Bragg, etc.

I would take issue with Union generals though. No Grants or Shermans, please. Sherman was basically a war criminal anyway, so if we're going to have a conversation about the past while using present social values, we need to be honest with ourselves.

The changes can be done and quite easily if we keep politics out of the process. Politics and social justice can kick it off and then they need to sit this one out.

 

[Deleted member 2517]

As a Southerner raied on the "Lost Cause" and with some 8-10 known ancestors who fought in the war for the South...change the names, but don't be political about it. Look at what the Navy has done with naming ships...just absolute sell outs IMO. We don't need a Fort Reagan or Fort Bush or whatever, we have plenty of generals and MOH winners to choose from.

There will be "dead naming" and we need to accept that. The names, not the men they came from, will mean something to many soldiers. That's fine. If some old timer and hell, I'm in that group, calls it Benning instead of a new name...don't correct us. Roll with it. In time, we'll die off and the names in use by the masses with adjust accordingly. The worst thing you can do after changing the names will be to correct the guys and gals who still call them Benning, Bragg, etc.

I would take issue with Union generals though. No Grants or Shermans, please. Sherman was basically a war criminal anyway, so if we're going to have a conversation about the past while using present social values, we need to be honest with ourselves.

The changes can be done and quite easily if we keep politics out of the process. Politics and social justice can kick it off and then they need to sit this one out.

Best option? Rename Benning Ft. (Alwyn) Cashe. A black man who fully deserves the MOH. Who served, on that post, as an infantry DS. That would be badass. And a step to upgrading that Silver Star.

ETA- I’ll always call it benning. I had no idea until recently that it was named after a confederate general. That wonderfully awful place can be called “Fort Bernard Sanders” and it wont change my memories.

 

[Florida173]

I was under the impression that they were so named during the aftermath of the Civil War to rebuild and reconcile. Sort of like how all Confederate soldiers were pardoned and given amnesty. Suddenly and randomly we are going to change it because reasons. For the sake of making everyone happy.. Any installations named after dead female service members? make sure we find some dead gay and trans ones also. Unless they are only pandering to blacks for now.

That being said.. I don't care. I wasn't really all that found of Civil War history so didn't know that my time at Ft. Benning and Ft. Bragg was keeping the memory of "traitors" fighting for slavery alive.

 

[R.Caerbannog]

Hate to be a stick in the mud, but our generals need to go back to warfighting. The fact that we have GO's bickering about post names is pathetic. This is a perfect example of why/how our enemies mock us behind our backs.

While DC demagogues and our GO's bicker about social justice, our enemies are quietly building their capabilities and causing havoc. Eventually they're gonna find an edge on us and we won't be sitting pretty anymore.

 

[AWP]

We may want to go ahead and add Fort Jackson to that list once people realize Andrew's track record with the American Indig. wasn't the best. For that matter, who else will draw the protestors' ire?

I have zero issue with renaming and stand by my post above, but the slippery slope also has a few mines.

 

[Devildoc]

I was under the impression that they were so named during the aftermath of the Civil War to rebuild and reconcile. Sort of like how all Confederate soldiers were pardoned and given amnesty. Suddenly and randomly we are going to change it because reasons. For the sake of making everyone happy.. Any installations named after dead female service members? make sure we find some dead gay and trans ones also. Unless they are only pandering to blacks for now.

That being said.. I don't care. I wasn't really all that found of Civil War history so didn't know that my time at Ft. Benning and Ft. Bragg was keeping the memory of "traitors" fighting for slavery alive.

It's not like they were named in 1865, days after the civil war. Ft. Bragg did not exist as a base until 1918.

@AWP , we did have a Ft. Sherman, right? Panama Canal Zone?

 

[Steve1839]

We may want to go ahead and add Fort Jackson to that list once people realize Andrew's track record with the American Indig. wasn't the best. For that matter, who else will draw the protestors' ire?

Kit Carson didn't get along terribly well with the Navajo, although he did have great respect and admiration for the Utes...Sheridan was no fan of the indig either, but I don't know if Fort Sheridan is closed or not...I suspect you could go down the list of most senior officers in the previous two centuries and find something objectionable, although I wouldn't mind seeing Roscoe Robinson's name assigned to a post...maybe naming installations for Medal of Honor recipients is the way to go...

 

[ThunderHorse]

Here is a thoughtful piece on the subject, written by an SF officer whom many of you know.



View attachment 34363

This is a le sigh for me. This naming of bases after Confederate Generals wasn't any hypocritical spirit of reconciliation. America in 1860 wasn't what it was in 2000. America of 1910 was still not what it was in 2000. We had a generation of men who harbored much discontent for just having their lives split apart. You have to remember, something like 99% of Confederate Soldiers owned no slaves. The majority of men who fought for the Confederacy were poor people.

This is a very nuanced issue and we're boiling it down to that?

*I will state this as a graduate of VMI, there are some really shithead people campaigning for the felling of Jackson's statue. This I will not abide.

Kit Carson didn't get along terribly well with the Navajo, although he did have great respect and admiration for the Utes...Sheridan was no fan of the indig either, but I don't know if Fort Sheridan is closed or not...I suspect you could go down the list of most senior officers in the previous two centuries and find something objectionable, although I wouldn't mind seeing Roscoe Robinson's name assigned to a post...maybe naming installations for Medal of Honor recipients is the way to go...

Fort Sheridan closed in 1993 as an Active Duty installation, much of the land was sold off, historic base housing was renovated and then sold. Within the Fort Sheridan historic district of Chicago there's the Philip H. Sheridan Reserve Center and the Fort Sheridan Forest Preserve.

 

[SOSTCRNA]

Best option? Rename Benning Ft. (Alwyn) Cashe. A black man who fully deserves the MOH. Who served, on that post, as an infantry DS. That would be badass. And a step to upgrading that Silver Star.

ETA- I’ll always call it benning. I had no idea until recently that it was named after a confederate general. That wonderfully awful place can be called “Fort Bernard Sanders” and it wont change my memories.

Thread drift but hard agree, the fact that Cashe doesn’t have the MOH is a travesty.

 

[Grunt]

No matter how hard one tries, history cannot be erased by the changing of a name or the tearing down of a statue. People need to learn their history and either choose to repeat it or use it as an example of what not to do or how not to be.

That is the sign of being a mature adult, but hey...it's often easier to go through life throwing tantrums and acting like a child if you don't get your way.

 

[Florida173]

No matter how hard one tries, history cannot be erased by the changing of a name or the tearing down of a statue. People need to learn their history and either choose to repeat it or use it as an example of what not to do or how not to be.

That is the sign of being a mature adult, but hey...it's often easier to go through life throwing tantrums and acting like a child if you don't get your way.

 

[Cookie_]

A benefit I've found of this whole thing is how this is bringing forth the history of a bunch of worthy NCOs and Officers I haven't had the opportunity to learn about yet.

 

[Deleted member 2517]

Here’s an option I thought of- as I sit on Ft. Stewart, quarantined in 3rd ID barracks.

Just name posts after their fucking divisions.Stewart becomes Fort Marne. Bragg can be Ft. pine land/all-American/airborne/billy Waugh.

There are so many ways to name these places in a more accurate way- reflecting their current identities, culture and recent history- the names just go on. It’s not hard.

 

[Kaldak]

It’s not hard

I wish and agree, but...politicians.

 

[Marauder06]

Here’s an option I thought of- as I sit on Ft. Stewart, quarantined in 3rd ID barracks.

Just name posts after their fucking divisions.Stewart becomes Fort Marne. Bragg can be Ft. pine land/all-American/airborne/billy Waugh.

There are so many ways to name these places in a more accurate way- reflecting their current identities, culture and recent history- the names just go on. It’s not hard.

Good idea. Or maybe we can name them after Army Values or something.

 

[Kaldak]

Ft Honor, Ft Courage, etc

 

[Kraut783]

Fort Safety Belt / Fort Reflective

 

[Deleted member 2517]

Good idea. Or maybe we can name them after Army Values or something.

That’s just lame, sir.

My logic is- name then for something that people “know the post for.” I forgot the “Army Values” after basic/AIT. I don’t know the Soldiers creed anymore, either- mainly because that “Creed” is 11 years younger than I am.

I’m talking about something real, long-standing- something the post is known for. I would rather name them after MOH recipients, but seeing as SFC Cash Still hasn’t been honored with that award, it wouldn’t make sense to rename Benning after him (yet).