Americans Will Not Fight for America

[policemedic]

Watch your mouth doc. She put up with me for 57 years before she passed.

Brother, I don’t how that happened. I must have fat fingered something because that was not something I intended to quote and definitely wasn’t the impression I wanted to give. In fact, looking at the post I don’t remember who/what I did intend to quote.


My apologies.

 

[Archangel27]

But hate to tell you guys, when you get older, the fluid in your spine disappears and you shrink. I went from 6ft to 5'10". 200 to 180. Also all that jumping and humping allows Arthur to move in and he plays hell with the body.

Ahhhhhh, I try to forget about how hard jumping can be on your body, but everyone says that having a JM certification is very much wanted and desired while in.

 

[Archangel27]

Not only would a lot of Americans not fight for America, I think a non-insignificant number would actively assist the other side.

I'm not so sure. It would heavily depend on how the "invasion" would be characterized and who would take over. And let's not forget that there is a small group of conservatives who definitely looked to Putin or Orban as people who would stand against wokeness and then Putin turned out to be just a thug.

If you're the kind of techno-bureaucrat who doesn't trust people to govern themselves, the Chinese would be more palatable, but I know that I've had enough discussions with my grandfather to know that the only people who actively think that the CCP would be benevolent overlords are those who buy Chinese propaganda hook, line, and sinker.

 

[Gunz]

Some old-fashioned Cold War might be good for our self-absorbed population. A little uncertainty, a little menace in the background noise of daily life.

9/11 succeeded in doing that for a while, but it was a one and done from UBL and in a few short years the humbling fear was gone.

Cold War is different. It has lasting power. It brings the specter of nuclear war with it, Armageddon, not just some fanatical nut jobs having to steal airplanes to smash a couple of buildings in far away NY city.

 

[ThunderHorse]

Apparently the DoD is looking at another inefficient recruiting model...this time? Scholarships for Student-Athletes.

Military Mulls Massive Recruiting Plan to Enlist College Athletes

 

[Marauder06]

Apparently the DoD is looking at another inefficient recruiting model...this time? Scholarships for Student-Athletes.

Interesting. Have a link?

 

[TLDR20]

Apparently the DoD is looking at another inefficient recruiting model...this time? Scholarships for Student-Athletes.

Military Mulls Massive Recruiting Plan to Enlist College Athletes

Seems like a great way to recruit a highly motivated and fit population into the service.

 

[Devildoc]

Seems like a great way to recruit a highly motivated and fit population into the service.

Yeah, agreed. That 99% who won't play pro is a great target, and staying away from the revenue sports of football and basketball is smart. Most of these guys and gals usually don't have scholarships, and getting military $ for school in exchange for service is not too far off from ROTC-type scholarships anyway.

I would like to think that most Americans would fight. I would like to think. But I realize we have a lazy, unenthusiastic, apathetic population who's first question would be "what's in it for me?"

 

[Marauder06]

Apparently the DoD is looking at another inefficient recruiting model...this time? Scholarships for Student-Athletes.

Military Mulls Massive Recruiting Plan to Enlist College Athletes

I think this is worth exploring. However:

tens of thousands of college athletes

"tens of thousands?" um, that sounds like a LOT. So I guess that means that these are for enlistments, not for commissioning? "Hey, good job graduating from college, now you can be an E4 in the Army and earn $30,000 a year!" lol, no

years of military or alternative civilian service

so... we're going to spend billions on "tens of thousands" of scholarships for college kids to join the military, only to have them say "k thx bi" and jump ship to civilian service, which will probably pay more, may provide better long-term training, and will definitely be less dangerous... how does this solve the military's recruiting problem, again??

 

[Devildoc]

"tens of thousands?" um, that sounds like a LOT. So I guess that means that these are for enlistments, not for commissioning? "Hey, good job graduating from college, now you can be an E4 in the Army and earn $30,000 a year!" lol, no

so... we're going to spend billions on "tens of thousands" of scholarships for college kids to join the military, only to have them say "k thx bi" and jump ship to civilian service, which will probably pay more, may provide better long-term training, and will definitely be less dangerous... how does this solve the military's recruiting problem, again??

To your first part, I think there could be some creativity as mentioned elsewhere before: warrants, advanced paygrade, E4 but contract duty station for longer period of time, etc. I also think this is also that niche that would be a target for SOF-centric recruits. I have seen Navy NSW recruiters at football games.

To your last part, definitely an issue, same issue we have always had with high-$, high-tech jobs. The military has really never solved that problem. Maybe same types of incentives as above? I dunno. I think it has merit, but I also think it's not going to pull in big numbers, either.

 

[Marauder06]

To your first part, I think there could be some creativity as mentioned elsewhere before: warrants, advanced paygrade, E4 but contract duty station for longer period of time, etc. I also think this is also that niche that would be a target for SOF-centric recruits. I have seen Navy NSW recruiters at football games.

To your last part, definitely an issue, same issue we have always had with high-$, high-tech jobs. The military has really never solved that problem. Maybe same types of incentives as above? I dunno. I think it has merit, but I also think it's not going to pull in big numbers, either.

We had "stripes for skills" in my company in Korea. Because they spoke Korean, they were E5s by the time they got to the unit. No time in grade, E5. But I had E5 expectations of them, which they were unable to meet. I was not a fan.

I predict many of the people who do opt in will become part of the "World Class Athlete" program and will spend their enlistments playing sports.

 

[Devildoc]

We had "stripes for skills" in my company in Korea. Because they spoke Korean, they were E5s by the time they got to the unit. No time in grade, E5. But I had E5 expectations of them, which they were unable to meet. I was not a fan.

I predict many of the people who do opt in will become part of the "World Class Athlete" program and will spend their enlistments playing sports.

The Navy and Navy Reserve have had advanced pay grade programs on and off for years. I *think* it's been successful. Certainly you bring in direct commission officers at a higher rank. The army also fast-tracks SF 18X candidates so they make E5 faster than TIS peers. Having been on the officer side and attending DCO school, and then working with DCO officers with no prior experience (I had 12 years in by that point), mentorship is key.

I admit there are problems, but do we throw the baby out with the bathwater? Refine the programs? Tack on extra training? Again, I say conclusively "I dunno...."

I would note the delicious irony of the service needing these guys so bad for manning, only to have them play sports for however long.

 

[TLDR20]

The Navy and Navy Reserve have had advanced pay grade programs on and off for years. I *think* it's been successful. Certainly you bring in direct commission officers at a higher rank. The army also fast-tracks SF 18X candidates so they make E5 faster than TIS peers. Having been on the officer side and attending DCO school, and then working with DCO officers with no prior experience (I had 12 years in by that point), mentorship is key.

I admit there are problems, but do we throw the baby out with the bathwater? Refine the programs? Tack on extra training? Again, I say conclusively "I dunno...."

I would note the delicious irony of the service needing these guys so bad for manning, only to have them play sports for however long.

It also may be cheaper to pay for these recruits college up front, with a requirement for service, than for them to later pay for the GI Bill.

 

[Marauder06]

It also may be cheaper to pay for these recruits college up front, with a requirement for service, than for them to later pay for the GI Bill.

That's a really good point. So no post-9/11 or Montgomery GI Bill? That sounds pretty reasonable.

 

[AWP]

And in 24 months some new SES will have a "new" idea and we'll all grab fat tubs of Prep H to soothe our butthurt over the newest round wheel thingy. All the while, manning numbers will change very little and the architects of the newest campaign will declare victory with a single digit percentage increase in recruiting. The SES will move on and some new SES will have a "new" idea and we'll all grab fat tubs of Prep H to soothe our butthurt over the newest round wheel thingy. All the while...

None of this addresses the fact that we learned jack and shit from all of our dead and maimed over the last 20 years. I don't know about you guys, but I'm feeling new PT uniforms!

 

[ThunderHorse]

And in 24 months some new SES will have a "new" idea and we'll all grab fat tubs of Prep H to soothe our butthurt over the newest round wheel thingy. All the while, manning numbers will change very little and the architects of the newest campaign will declare victory with a single digit percentage increase in recruiting. The SES will move on and some new SES will have a "new" idea and we'll all grab fat tubs of Prep H to soothe our butthurt over the newest round wheel thingy. All the while...

None of this addresses the fact that we learned jack and shit from all of our dead and maimed over the last 20 years. I don't know about you guys, but I'm feeling new PT uniforms!

Someone is getting a promotion to BG and DMSM out of this. And their NCO is getting an MSM.

 

[Devildoc]

Given how fat our general population is, I see the merit in trying to entice this group. Already physically fit, and they're in college so they have a clue and are reasonably intelligent.

 

[AWP]

In before the “but what about cyber” posts.

 

[Marauder06]

In before the “but what about cyber” posts.

"hate"

 

[R.Caerbannog]

Given how fat our general population is, I see the merit in trying to entice this group. Already physically fit, and they're in college so they have a clue and are reasonably intelligent.

They're also heavily indoctrinated. Try undoing in 16 weeks the 4 years of garbage a University crammed into their heads. In some places it's bad.