11th Airborne Division in Alaska

[Devildoc]

To be honest, Army units, lineage, and nomenclature are not in my wheelhouse. So with that, it does not make a lot of sense to me to wholesale rename a unit. I get that the 25th ID is tropic-focused and it does make sense to remove them from Alaska. But why the 11th Airborne, especially when they have not decided if all elements are going to be actually airborne qualified?

Army Creating Second Paratrooper Division as Service Forges New Identity for Arctic Troops

 

[racing_kitty]

To be honest, Army units, lineage, and nomenclature are not in my wheelhouse. So with that, it does not make a lot of sense to me to wholesale rename a unit. I get that the 25th ID is tropic-focused and it does make sense to remove them from Alaska. But why the 11th Airborne, especially when they have not decided if all elements are going to be actually airborne qualified?

Army Creating Second Paratrooper Division as Service Forges New Identity for Arctic Troops

There's a lot that the Army does that really doesn't make a lick of sense. The only actual Airborne organizations near Ft. Stewart are the Ranger battalion and associated support units, and yet the 3rd ID falls under the XVIII Airborne Corps. I'm sure they have their reasons, but who knows what they are.

 

[AWP]

There's a lot that the Army does that really doesn't make a lick of sense. The only actual Airborne organizations near Ft. Stewart are the Ranger battalion and associated support units, and yet the 3rd ID falls under the XVIII Airborne Corps. I'm sure they have their reasons, but who knows what they are.

I think they added 3rd ID when the 82nd turned in its Sheridans.

Didn’t 3rd ID contribute the tanks that rolled with the SOF task force during the invasion of Iraq?

ETA: The 11th probably has a stronger history than previous airborne divisions. Not that I matter, but it is probably a good call.

 

[racing_kitty]

I think they added 3rd ID when the 82nd turned in its Sheridans.

Didn’t 3rd ID contribute the tanks that rolled with the SOF task force during the invasion of Iraq?

ETA: The 11th probably has a stronger history than previous airborne divisions. Not that I matter, but it is probably a good call.

I believe they did. I couldn’t tell you what brigade it was, as I don’t remember right offhand. I want to say first, but I’m not certain.

I never thought to question why a non-Airborne division would fall under an Airborne corps, and since I was only part of a non-Airborne tenant org, I didn’t make the time to understand the reasoning.

 

[Devildoc]

Army organization thoroughly confuses me.

I love the heritage, the history, the lineage. But how units get invented and disinvented, that shit confuses me.

 

[Deleted member 2517]

There's a lot that the Army does that really doesn't make a lick of sense. The only actual Airborne organizations near Ft. Stewart are the Ranger battalion and associated support units, and yet the 3rd ID falls under the XVIII Airborne Corps. I'm sure they have their reasons, but who knows what they are.

3rd ID is under Corps for GRF/Forcible entry reasons. The logic goes: Regiment does the initial airhead seizure, 82nd jumps in again and pushes airhead out, 3rd ID comes in on C5s with the Brads and Abrams and starts the push.

11th Airborne had a good history, but had a rough go in Sicily and go shifted to the Pacific where they never performed a jump and operated as standard infantry, If my memory serves me. I think it’s good to refocus the units and give the 25th CG the ability to focus on Hawaii alone now, and give the AK boys someone closer to the flag pole to call “dad.”

 

[AWP]

3rd ID is under Corps for GRF/Forcible entry reasons. The logic goes: Regiment does the initial airhead seizure, 82nd jumps in again and pushes airhead out, 3rd ID comes in on C5s with the Brads and Abrams and starts the push.

11th Airborne had a good history, but had a rough go in Sicily and go shifted to the Pacific where they never performed a jump and operated as standard infantry, If my memory serves me. I think it’s good to refocus the units and give the 25th CG the ability to focus on Hawaii alone now, and give the AK boys someone closer to the flag pole to call “dad.”

They were stateside during Sicily and first saw combat in the Philippines as line infantry. If the link below is correct they had 4 combat jumps in WWII including one using L-4/ L-5 "piper cub" type aircraft.

United States Combat Jumps

 

[Gunz]

Army organization thoroughly confuses me.

They have lots of and badges and patches and berets. There's that. And apparently you can be in an airborne unit and wear the unit's bling etc and yet not be a paratrooper. On the rare occasions I made it into Danang, there were all these dudes with Screaming Eagle patches--whom I naturally assumed to be paratroopers--although many of them were not.

 

[Devildoc]

They have lots of and badges and patches and berets. There's that. And apparently you can be in an airborne unit and wear the unit's bling etc and yet not be a paratrooper. On the rare occasions I made it into Danang, there were all these dudes with Screaming Eagle patches--whom I naturally assumed to be paratroopers--although many of them were not.

I've always been fascinated by army heraldry, history, badges, etc. When I was growing up all the dudes in my family gave me their stuff so I started collecting and studying it. But there's so much weirdness to it and a lot of it doesn't make sense. Like, there is a 'jungle' and 'arctic' tab, but you can only wear it if you're in that AO.

Re: jump school, when I was a reservist I went on orders for I&I staff for a reserve center, S3 was always getting memos about slots to this school and that school. We'd send a handful of Marines to jump school for the "cool guy badge".

 

[SpongeBob*24]

There's a lot that the Army does that really doesn't make a lick of sense. The only actual Airborne organizations near Ft. Stewart are the Ranger battalion and associated support units, and yet the 3rd ID falls under the XVIII Airborne Corps. I'm sure they have their reasons, but who knows what they are.

At any given time in the 90s 2-3 Units were at NTC, JRTC or a random FTX and we were always gone because we provided commo support for them.

3ID - Ft Stwert, GA
10th MTN - Ft Drum, NY
108th ADA - Ft Bliss, TX
101st AA - Ft Campbell, KY
All 50 units on base.

 

[ThunderHorse]

To be honest, Army units, lineage, and nomenclature are not in my wheelhouse. So with that, it does not make a lot of sense to me to wholesale rename a unit. I get that the 25th ID is tropic-focused and it does make sense to remove them from Alaska. But why the 11th Airborne, especially when they have not decided if all elements are going to be actually airborne qualified?

Army Creating Second Paratrooper Division as Service Forges New Identity for Arctic Troops

When it comes to unit amalgamation and not respecting history, the US Army is really good at destroying its own history. We don't do a lot of stuff to preserve our history and we don't maintain pomp and circumstance of anything. We're just being stupid and creating under-sized maneuver units. The Army is talking about going back to using the Division and not the BCT as it's main maneuver force because a Division is just used as a HQ unit rather than some CG getting to maneuver HIS pieces on the battlefield he maneuver's his best buddy's pieces because he happens to be deployed as the higher hq in theater.

11th Infantry Division was a Notional Unit and a deception formation in England during WWII.

11th Airborne Division fought all its engagements in the Pacific.

 

[Devildoc]

When it comes to unit amalgamation and not respecting history, the US Army is really good at destroying its own history. We don't do a lot of stuff to preserve our history and we don't maintain pomp and circumstance of anything. We're just being stupid and creating under-sized maneuver units. The Army is talking about going back to using the Division and not the BCT as it's main maneuver force because a Division is just used as a HQ unit rather than some CG getting to maneuver HIS pieces on the battlefield he maneuver's his best buddy's pieces because he happens to be deployed as the higher hq in theater.

11th Infantry Division was a Notional Unit and a deception formation in England during WWII.

11th Airborne Division fought all its engagements in the Pacific.

The Marines are getting just as bad, casing colors of some units, and reinventing old ones. Some squadrons have been active and deactivated multiple times over the past 70 years.

One thing that fascinates me about the history of the army, a lot of soldiers identify with their particular battalion or regiment and not the division, but wear the division patch. Then there is the army patch. Then there are people wearing airborne patches who are not airborne qualified. I used to have several books on army crests, insignia, and patches, back when I collected them. I loved reading up on that stuff.

 

[Deleted member 2517]

They were stateside during Sicily and first saw combat in the Philippines as line infantry. If the link below is correct they had 4 combat jumps in WWII including one using L-4/ L-5 "piper cub" type aircraft.

United States Combat Jumps

Who knew Wikipedia could be wrong. I re read the article and realized I misread the bit about Sicily.

 

[SOSTCRNA]

The Marines are getting just as bad, casing colors of some units, and reinventing old ones. Some squadrons have been active and deactivated multiple times over the past 70 years.

One thing that fascinates me about the history of the army, a lot of soldiers identify with their particular battalion or regiment and not the division, but wear the division patch. Then there is the army patch. Then there are people wearing airborne patches who are not airborne qualified. I used to have several books on army crests, insignia, and patches, back when I collected them. I loved reading up on that stuff.

Really? I’ve never heard any soldier or former soldier reminisce about their battalion or regiment and not their division ((75th being an obvious exception but they are not part of a division). Granted, their memories of the service time were of their smaller units right down to their squad but that’s the people they actually knew.

 

[Devildoc]

Really? I’ve never heard any soldier or former soldier reminisce about their battalion or regiment and not their division ((75th being an obvious exception but they are not part of a division). Granted, their memories of the service time were of their smaller units right down to their squad but that’s the people they actually knew.

That's my obs. "What unit were you in?" "Oh, first battalion, 247th infantry." Me: "Oh." Them: "It's part of the 82nd Airborne." Me: "Ooohhhh.... (lightbulb moment).

Or I get: "I was in the 1st Infantry Division." Me: "Oh, Ft Riley, right?" Them: "Yeah, but my actual unit was stationed elsewhere...." I get that, too: Them: "You were in the Navy? What ship were you on?" Me: "Oh, I was never haze gray and underway, I was never aboard a ship, and I never spent anytime aboard a Navy base." Then to really blow their mind: Me: "I spent almost the entirety of my 17 years assigned to the Marines." Them: "But I thought you said you were in the Navy....."

Maybe because it's the unit in which you intimately train? I don't know. I think part of the problem is in translation, trying to jam army org into Marine Corps org to try to find =/=.

 

[Devildoc]

Who knew Wikipedia could be wrong. I re read the article and realized I misread the bit about Sicily.

Dude. I have a son who will go in and deliberately edit Wiki pages to to screw with people. Well, he did, until I got ahold of him. He doesn't do that anymore.

 

[SOSTCRNA]

That's my obs. "What unit were you in?" "Oh, first battalion, 247th infantry." Me: "Oh." Them: "It's part of the 82nd Airborne." Me: "Ooohhhh.... (lightbulb moment).

Or I get: "I was in the 1st Infantry Division." Me: "Oh, Ft Riley, right?" Them: "Yeah, but my actual unit was stationed elsewhere...." I get that, too: Them: "You were in the Navy? What ship were you on?" Me: "Oh, I was never haze gray and underway, I was never aboard a ship, and I never spent anytime aboard a Navy base." Then to really blow their mind: Me: "I spent almost the entirety of my 17 years assigned to the Marines." Them: "But I thought you said you were in the Navy....."

Maybe because it's the unit in which you intimately train? I don't know. I think part of the problem is in translation, trying to jam army org into Marine Corps org to try to find =/=.

I believe you, just totally opposite of my experience. It’s always division and if the person is familiar with division then discussion of subordinate units Eg. I was in the 82nd. Oh really, what unit? 3/505. Cool , I was 2/505 etc

Now as for the navy, your units of assignments are only slightly less confusing than your enlisted ranks

 

[Devildoc]

I believe you, just totally opposite of my experience. It’s always division and if the person is familiar with division then discussion of subordinate units Eg. I was in the 82nd. Oh really, what unit? 3/505. Cool , I was 2/505 etc

Now as for the navy, your units of assignments are only slightly less confusing than your enlisted ranks

LOL. Our enlisted rank structure is built to confuse The Man. It's the only power we have.

No shit, last award I got when I was enlisted, the company first sergeant was calling me up, it was like "Petty officer....er, HM....uh....Doc Mandelin, front and center."

 

[ThunderHorse]

Who knew Wikipedia could be wrong. I re read the article and realized I misread the bit about Sicily.

Give the entire Division a combat jump star because the CG was an advisor to a jump.

ETA- The Army really screwed over keeping historical units together by junking the regimental system. So you have a 6-1 Cav that never existed when the unit was actually a regiment with an A company. Then a 6-4 Cav (was in this one) with company designations of A-C. UICs are dumb.

 

[SpitfireV]

All your ranks confuse me. Concurrant ranks with different names, giving them a letter and number too, so many types of sergeant, TWO PRIVATE RANKS?!, officers who aren't officers but are officers in another class system?

Combine that with all the flair and it's the best accidental counter intelligence I've seen.