Anonymous Letter Discussion and General Kurt Sonntags rebuttal (MERGED)

[Box]

Unless I was grossly misinformed, Robertson and Squires both had their ART-15 charges dropped as well as the threat of a Court Martial proceeding but they were still both given a General Officer Letter of Reprimand - the kiss of death.
The last I heard (earlier this year) the railroading was complete and they were both being discharged form the Army.

The article addresses a few things that have already been beat to death but doesn't really address any "changes" to the course in any real context. Otherwise, I'd say the time for blaming Sonntag for what is going on in SWC has passed - he is gone and wont be commanding any more active duty troops. Even though he was cleared during the investigation looking into charges of his abuse of power and manipulating standards to look good on paper, when he asked for an extension to his command of SWC, they declined his extension and decided NOT to offer him a follow on assignment. Now he is on his way to the private sector where I am sure he will quickly transition into a career as a military consultant that sells his senior leader snake-oil right back to the Army for an elevated price

The new commander, MG Pat Roberson was my Group Commander for a few years and from my experience with him during that time and since, he is a good man. He does not display the same "I am the boss and I am smarter than the rest of you" type of arrogance as the guy he replaced.

 

[Viper1]

Unless I was grossly misinformed, Robertson and Squires both had their ART-15 charges dropped as well as the threat of a Court Martial proceeding but they were still both given a General Officer Letter of Reprimand - the kiss of death.
The last I heard (earlier this year) the railroading was complete and they were both being discharged form the Army.

The article addresses a few things that have already been beat to death but doesn't really address any "changes" to the course in any real context. Otherwise, I'd say the time for blaming Sonntag for what is going on in SWC has passed - he is gone and wont be commanding any more active duty troops. Even though he was cleared during the investigation looking into charges of his abuse of power and manipulating standards to look good on paper, when he asked for an extension to his command of SWC, they declined his extension and decided NOT to offer him a follow on assignment. Now he is on his way to the private sector where I am sure he will quickly transition into a career as a military consultant that sells his senior leader snake-oil right back to the Army for an elevated price

The new commander, MG Pat Roberson was my Group Commander for a few years and from my experience with him during that time and since, he is a good man. He does not display the same "I am the boss and I am smarter than the rest of you" type of arrogance as the guy he replaced.

I second the comments about MG Roberson. Solid and unassuming; highly competent, a quiet professional who leads quietly.

I do resent some of the hand wringing about the Q course from officers who also were adamantly opposed to sending their junior officers and NCOs to SWCS assignments. The common retort from them seeing it on a soldier’s timeline was, “Why do you want the SWCS stink on you?” That was 2011-2015.

SF strives for continuous improvement; we will get this right.

 

[Box]

I do resent some of the hand wringing about the Q course from officers who also were adamantly opposed to sending their junior officers and NCOs to SWCS assignments. The common retort from them seeing it on a soldier’s timeline was, “Why do you want the SWCS stink on you?”

Ageed - the same folks looking down their nose at SWC will complain that they arent happy with the end product.
Garbage in = Garbage Out

That in no way is meant to imply that there is a problem with the instructors as a whole - but it does mean that only sending folks to SWC to get them off your books is a sure fire way to spoil the sauce and cheat the GREAT instructors out of the hard work that they put in.

 

[ThunderHorse]

Ageed - the same folks looking down their nose at SWC will complain that they arent happy with the end product.
Garbage in = Garbage Out

That in no way is meant to imply that there is a problem with the instructors as a whole - but it does mean that only sending folks to SWC to get them off your books is a sure fire way to spoil the sauce and cheat the GREAT instructors out of the hard work that they put in.

What I never understood on the Army side when compared against the Marine Corps was how we as a Force look down on Instructor time and it's all about staying in FORSCOM for as long as possible. Whereas, as I understood it from several people, every officer instructor in the Marine Corps is carefully selected and is usually one of the best within that MOS.

 

[Gunz]

What I never understood on the Army side when compared against the Marine Corps was how we as a Force look down on Instructor time and it's all about staying in FORSCOM for as long as possible. Whereas, as I understood it from several people, every officer instructor in the Marine Corps is carefully selected and is usually one of the best within that MOS.

NCO and officer instructors in the Corps have to be the best. For NCOs, Drill Instructor School is one example. Having said that, some of the best instructors I had were the Special Forces NCOs at Ft. Sherman's Jungle Operations Training Center.

 

[Devildoc]

NCO and officer instructors in the Corps have to be the best. For NCOs, Drill Instructor School is one example. Having said that, some of the best instructors I had were the Special Forces NCOs at Ft. Sherman's Jungle Operations Training Center.

"Back in the day" (my dad's time) you had a choice in your career: DI school, or recruiter school. If you wanted to promote, you did one or the other. Given the Corps is so small, if you make it 20 years, you will likely have taught something at some point.

It helps when you have people who like teaching. Few things are worse than having an instructor who makes it clear he is disinterested and does not want to be there. Me, I love teaching (it's what I do now).

 

[Box]

I loved my time in the school house (of course I had a good job jumping out of planes) but even where I worked, there were quite a few guys that didn't hide the fact that they didn't want to be there and couldn't wait until their time was up.

Some guys love doing a little time at the school house, some - not so much

 

[Viper1]

What I never understood on the Army side when compared against the Marine Corps was how we as a Force look down on Instructor time and it's all about staying in FORSCOM for as long as possible. Whereas, as I understood it from several people, every officer instructor in the Marine Corps is carefully selected and is usually one of the best within that MOS.

In maneuver branches, school house time as an instructor was the “feather in the cap” assignment. Best officers were usually selected for those jobs, especially at Benning and Knox.

 

[AWP]

I can't fathom a mentality where NOT sending your best is a good idea. I don't care what careerfield you're talking about, if you aren't sending your best then you're practically guaranteeing a substandard product.

 

[SpongeBob*24]

There are good instructors and then there are great instructors. All 18 series are good, but those who wanna teach and have experience and backing from friends and family and 100% wanna be there can go that extra mile to really mentor young trainees into the force we need tomorrow.

 

[Kaldak]

Outside looking in, post 9/11:

SWCs biggest 2 problems.......?

1) It's on Ft Bragg.
TED, Super fit sexxxxy SF dude, let's say 18E....."Honey, do you wanna go back to Fayetteville, I got a chance to teach?..."
MELISSA, Super hot trophy wife of 18E......"are you bleep bleep kidding me you piece of bleep bleep sorry bleep piece of bleep bleep...I will leave you if you drag me to that bleeping town one more time!!!!!"

2) It was deemed a career move during the war.
TED, Same 18E from above.."Hey JOHN [ TM SGT], I really wanna go back to the school house and teach young 18E's, I have 47 deployments and thank it will help the future of SF!"
TM SGT JOHN...."sure, go work on making E8, the rest of your team is going to WARDAK province in a month....don't feel bad we are expecting 78% casualty rate...good luck byeeeeee traitor."

Point being, there are good instructors and then there are great instructors. All 18 series are good, but those who wanna teach and have experience and backing from friends and family and 100% wanna be there can go that extra mile to really mentor young trainees into the force we need tomorrow.

So, what I'm hearing is go 18E and you get a super hawt trophy wife.

 

[policemedic]

I never minded Bragg.

 

[Devildoc]

I never minded Bragg.

I feel that way about Lejeune, especially over Pendleton.

Teaching/instructing should be part of a career. It makes you better at your craft, and allows the SME to pass invaluable information.