Army Tier 1 Unit Cancelled?

[The Quartermaster]

There's not one post or camp, base or port, and not one unit out there across the board that hasn't had it's share of douches. I respect Delta just as much as I would all of our other units and I will point out that no unit is without being besmirched with bad apples. Their selection process weeds out a lot more but the odds are never zero as we've come to find out. The expansion of Delta and opening it up to other services being able to be detached to Delta has in fact increased these odds however unfortunate.

Just imagine what never ever came to light right up until then with these reports and was hidden from us quite possibly, hm?

 

[AWP]

The expansion of Delta and opening it up to other services being able to be detached to Delta has in fact increased these odds however unfortunate.

Who go through the same process as their regular counterparts. If you want to be a shooter, you make the long walk. Support guys like their direct support roles (they have a term which escapes me..."assault force?") undergo the same vetting and selection process. I can't speak to their more FOB-based roles like loggies, admin, intel, IT infrastructure, etc.

I might have a guy I could ask, but I'm pretty sure you aren't hitting the X without every role regardless of branch undergoing the same process. If they aren't, that changed at some point in the late-GWOT era.

 

[Devildoc]

There's not one post or camp, base or port, and not one unit out there across the board that hasn't had it's share of douches. I respect Delta just as much as I would all of our other units and I will point out that no unit is without being besmirched with bad apples. Their selection process weeds out a lot more but the odds are never zero as we've come to find out. The expansion of Delta and opening it up to other services being able to be detached to Delta has in fact increased these odds however unfortunate.

Just imagine what never ever came to light right up until then with these reports and was hidden from us quite possibly, hm?

You're all right, probability is never zero, and everything has a bell curve.

But I don't agree with you regarding the potential probability of having troublemakers from other services. The way that reads to me is that you have a higher likelihood of getting troublemakers from the other services than if it was just the army. I can, of course, be reading it wrong.

 

[Topkick]

The way that reads to me is that you have a higher likelihood of getting troublemakers from the other services than if it was just the army.

If you bring in members from other services, I think you're going to have different attitudes and ways of thinking. This will likely alter the culture, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

 

[Florida173]

If you bring in members from other services, I think you're going to have different attitudes and ways of thinking. This will likely alter the culture, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

I think people might be just forgetting how we deploy as units forward and in a joint environment. Anyone going to the actual units are unit members with the selections and OTCs appropriate for their roles regardless of which service they might have come from. Deploying with any random JTF doesn't make you a unit member.

This article throwing some cover stuff is probably more just them and her trying to provide some bona fides and to play into what people think the unit does. This article goes out of its way trying to connect random things to make it seem like the unit has some rot in it. There's been worse articles for some of our other units that have caused more of a stir that I won't specifically point out here. Kind of reminds me when Relentless Strike was pushed out and how Main reacted compared to SOCOM.

There's shitty people everywhere. The unit has some of the most impressive people in the world and legit are some of the most humble guys that have zero need to tell you how impressive they are. It's definitely a different culture than at any SFG where enablers have to work twice as hard to be thought of half as good.

 

[Devildoc]

If you bring in members from other services, I think you're going to have different attitudes and ways of thinking. This will likely alter the culture, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

I kinda think that's part of their goal as a unit.

I see single-service units where there have been some, ah, culture issues (looking at you, DEVGRU....)

 

[AWP]

Every account of of the unit or podcast with former members talks about the heavy emphasis the unit puts on psyche evals and not choosing the best members, but the right members. It knows what it wants and I think any of us expect change and growth, but not a serious overhaul in the culture since its founding.

You also can hardly find an interview where the culture of the different squadrons isn't discussed and how the unit tries to send guys from OTC into the right squadrons based on their personalities. (I've seen a few that say DEVGRU does the same, how Gold in particular had a large percentage of very religious members). Pretty much every single former CAG guy on a podcast has the same story with some mentioning B Squadron as the hyper aggressive folks, the "Ranger" squadron including guys like Pat McNamara...

 

[Devildoc]

Every account of of the unit or podcast with former members talks about the heavy emphasis the unit puts on psyche evals and not choosing the best members, but the right members. It knows what it wants and I think any of us expect change and growth, but not a serious overhaul in the culture since its founding.

You also can hardly find an interview where the culture of the different squadrons isn't discussed and how the unit tries to send guys from OTC into the right squadrons based on their personalities. (I've seen a few that say DEVGRU does the same, how Gold in particular had a large percentage of very religious members). Pretty much every single former CAG guy on a podcast has the same story with some mentioning B Squadron as the hyper aggressive folks, the "Ranger" squadron including guys like Pat McNamara...

The whole sub-culture thing is fascinating to me. Someone can (or more likely, already has) get a PhD in psychology looking at that.

 

[Topkick]

I kinda think that's part of their goal as a unit.

I see single-service units where there have been some, ah, culture issues (looking at you, DEVGRU....)

I agree, but was thinking more about our branch indoctrination. Marines do not think like Army, etc. Theoretically, this could be a force multiplier while also being complicated.

 

[Devildoc]

I agree, but was thinking more about our branch indoctrination. Marines do not think like Army, etc. Theoretically, this could be a force multiplier while also being complicated.

I'm tracking. I go back to what @AWP said about selecting the right person and not necessarily the best person. Finding the right person who will fit is a challenge but they seem to have it down pretty well. I believe that's how the SAS does, it too: all-comers, from any unit in the military.

When I was a hiring manager I would hire for fit because I/we can train anyone to do the job. But if you can't play nicely in the sandbox with the other kids or if you are a shitbag, I don't want you.

Even within the branches there are sub-cultures, in spite of what they say at boot camp; i.e., effing POGs. They like to push the whole "a Marine is a Marine" and "every Marine a rifleman" but tell that to S1 who works 8-5 M-F in an air conditioned office. It's all cats and dogs until the family reunion (November 10), then everyone group hugs and gets drunk together. I did not really see this at Navy boot, but again, FMF corpsmen look down on "blue-side" docs, air wingers look down on everyone, sub guys know they are special, etc.

 

[amlove21]

Yup. He was killed in 2020 with a retired QM warrant (Dumas) while (allegedly) trafficking cocaine.

The cop found guilty of drug trafficking in 2023 specifically says he provided shipments from the Zetas to Dumas, who claimed he had members of "SF and SOF units" also working with him.

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There were definitely dudes at Bragg involved in criminal activity. How widespread/known that was is up for debate, though I'm skeptical it was as common as it seems this author is suggesting. I'm also not buying the conspiracy angle that keeps popping up.

Alladis. Exactly correct.

The only thing I will say is that if you quit putting dots up on a wall, people will stop connecting the dots. Cocaine rings, unsolved decapitations (they mention the Dumas case in this article too) rampant (alleged) drug use and murders from folks on Bragg... people are very conspiratorial these days, and Bragg is just ripe with weird crap that continues to happen.

 

[Devildoc]

....and Bragg is just ripe with weird crap that continues to happen.

Bragg is very much a contradiction (or, if you prefer, schizophrenic). It's home to some of the most unique and ostensibly top-shelf SOF in the world, surrounded by the best airborne capability that can respond to an international crisis withing hours, but at the same time it's a shithole. a dump, bordered by a fetid sewer of ugliness known as Fayetteville and Spring Hope. At least once you go west of Manchester Road you can escape to the country and bougie hipster places like Southern Pines and Pinehurst.

 

[Marauder06]

... Spring Hope. At least once you go west of Manchester Road you can escape to the country and bougie hipster places like Southern Pines and Pinehurst.

"Spring Hope:" I see what you did there--Spring Lake and Hope Mills. Only a true Fayettevillian would know that. Well done.

 

[The Quartermaster]

I'm just a five jump chump thinking I may have dodged a big bullet when I turned down orders to both Campbell and then Bragg afterwards. My branch manager was my former platoon SGT, so I had it like that.

 

[AWP]

Finding the right person who will fit is a challenge but they seem to have it down pretty well. I believe that's how the SAS does, it too: all-comers, from any unit in the military.

I believe the UK made a change in the last decade-ish where SAS and SBS selection is one class. If selected you choose which unit you want and they send you off accordingly.

 

[Devildoc]

"Spring Hope:" I see what you did there--Spring Lake and Hope Mills. Only a true Fayettevillian would know that. Well done.

LOL, yes, yes I did. Don't get me wrong: there are some beautiful neighborhoods in Fayetteville, and some beautiful, historic places on the base. But you go from one to a ghetto or an asbestos-riddled, bed bug-infested building in a nanosecond.

I'm just a five jump chump thinking I may have dodged a big bullet when I turned down orders to both Campbell and then Bragg afterwards. My branch manager was my former platoon SGT, so I had it like that.

The more places I was at, either stationed, in a school, or visited, army, navy, or Marines, it's not so much 'as what's best' as 'what sucks the least'. Air force, I have only been to a small handful so can't make an assessment. There are worse places than Bragg (but I haven't been stationed there).

 

[Devildoc]

I believe the UK made a change in the last decade-ish where SAS and SBS selection is one class. If selected you choose which unit you want and they send you off accordingly.

Yes, a very cool model.

 

[Topkick]

it's not so much 'as what's best' as 'what sucks the least'. Air force, I have only been to a small handful so can't make an assessment. There are worse places than Bragg (but I haven't been stationed there).

I spent 5 years at NTC. A lot of people consider it the most dreadful post in the Army. I loved it and even extended to stay the last year. The OPFOR mission was a blast, lots of time off, and so much to do in SoCal. The desert is my jam. Most of those who hate it only visited and didn't live it.

 

[Devildoc]

I spent 5 years at NTC. A lot of people consider it the most dreadful post in the Army. I loved it and even extended to stay the last year. The OPFOR mission was a blast, lots of time off, and so much to do in SoCal. The desert is my jam. Most of those who hate it only visited and didn't live it.

I felt the same way about Camp Lejeune; but then, I also grew up there so I had an emotional connection. Jacksonville is also a dumpy town (unlike Fayetteville it's not ghetto so much as economically depressed), but I do love the base, the surrounding communities, and being on the water.

"But devildoc," people say, "you also had beautiful accommodations at Camp Pendleton!" My response is that the base is relatively barren and filled with scrub brush and evil hills, it's just not pretty. Also I could NEVER afford to live anywhere close to the (cold) water. Nah, take your Pendleton, I'll take Lejeune.

 

[The Quartermaster]

The more places I was at, either stationed, in a school, or visited, army, navy, or Marines, it's not so much 'as what's best' as 'what sucks the least'. Air force, I have only been to a small handful so can't make an assessment. There are worse places than Bragg (but I haven't been stationed there).

It's the atmosphere that was the issue with both posts. As if the rest of US Army is there for them and we're all just peasants and uncouth bogans in uniform.

You have to see the bigger picture here, some units have terrible institutionalizations that have been handed down to proteges and never stopped.