Branching Military Intelligence

[Ronnoc]

Here is a quick update from my Introduction post approx. a year ago to bring everyone up to speed on what I am trying to accomplish. I am currently in the MSII class in the Army ROTC program at NDSU, I am expected to receive a Scholarship offer in a few weeks and will be attending Leader's Training Course this summer at Ft. Knox, Kentucky to bring me up to speed for my MSIII year.

I am writing the knowledgeable members of this forum to gain some insight about the Military Intelligence realm of things, at the discretion of Marauder06.

I very much had the contagious itch of wanting to be a "cool guy shooter" for most of my life, and it was reinforced when I first stumbled upon the plethora of information about said "cool guy shooters" present on this website and various others. After reading for many hours, being in ROTC courses and participating in training exercises, I realized that there is much more open to me in the military than just being a shooter, even though I definitely am still entertaining the idea. I want to make sure I understand other options of branching to make sure I end up in the spot where I can be the most successful to the soldiers counting on me as an Officer, as well as the mission. Which brings me to Military Intelligence, I have read quite a bit on this forum, but I still do not have a great understanding of what happens after you get an MI commission, and how you select or are assigned to the different sects of MI. Any reading material suggestions that might deal with those topics, or what it is like being a Junior (Insert MI Sect here) Officer, would be much appreciated. I just hope to learn as much as I can, to make the most informed decision possible when the time comes.

Thank you,

V/R

SmithCO

 

[Brill]

...I still do not have a great understanding of what happens after you get an MI commission...

Highly qualified already!

 

[DA SWO]

Learn everything about PowerPoint, and amass an awesome clip art collection.

 

[Marauder06]

Highly qualified already!

"hate"

Learn everything about PowerPoint, and amass an awesome clip art collection.

double "hate"

 

[DA SWO]

"hate"



double "hate"

But you didn't disagree

 

[Mosque]

But you didn't disagree

I think you forgot about the excel games and demotivational pics.

I'm like a LVL 75 PPT ninja. Dont get me started on GE.

As for military intel, and being an officer in a military intel field, I know not. However. The most influential officer that I've experienced to date wasn't the guy who knew everything there is to know about being an intel officer, it was the guy who knew enough about people and how people work to be able to listen and learn from his enlsited cadre and take their experience and use that to guide his decisions. Also, best experiences have been with junior officers who take the time to sit in the back seat and learn before trying to implement policies and decisions. Theres plenty of time for that higher up in rank. Take the knowledge of the ones who have done it longer and use that as your foundation. Soak it up like a sponge. Really this applies to anywhere you go as an officer.

For reading, read about the middle east / southwest asia. Dont read "Three Cups of Tea" or "Stones into Schools"... That guy turned out to be a phony. Read Islamic Brotherhood: The Unmaking of Terrorists (good read, interesting / weird). Read about psychology and how people function (that part will help you in dealing with intel of the enemy, as well as dealing with your subordinates). Blink would be a good book to read in this regard. It actually touches on intelligence and MI, and how sometimes theres such a thing as "too much". When it comes to intel theres not much that you shouldn't read. You never know where information you pick up in a book will be useful or guide your decisions.

Also if you DO go intel, I recommend finding a "nerd niche". It sounds lame, but something that you can share and identify with other intel dudes is key. I work with dudes who paint miniatures, watch star trek, quote star wars, have lord of the rings tattoos, play DotA and WoW, Starcraft (original and new ones) and so much more. My "office" has giant 8-bit megaman wall stickers on it. And lee-enfields. Is that a pre-requisite? No. Does it fall into the "psychology" portion and being able to know your subordinates/co-workers? yea. (I fall under most of those categories that I listed btw. Not afraid to admit that)

 

[Ronnoc]

I think you forgot about the excel games and demotivational pics.

I'm like a LVL 75 PPT ninja. Dont get me started on GE.

As for military intel, and being an officer in a military intel field, I know not. However. The most influential officer that I've experienced to date wasn't the guy who knew everything there is to know about being an intel officer, it was the guy who knew enough about people and how people work to be able to listen and learn from his enlsited cadre and take their experience and use that to guide his decisions. Also, best experiences have been with junior officers who take the time to sit in the back seat and learn before trying to implement policies and decisions. Theres plenty of time for that higher up in rank. Take the knowledge of the ones who have done it longer and use that as your foundation. Soak it up like a sponge. Really this applies to anywhere you go as an officer.

For reading, read about the middle east / southwest asia. Dont read "Three Cups of Tea" or "Stones into Schools"... That guy turned out to be a phony. Read Islamic Brotherhood: The Unmaking of Terrorists (good read, interesting / weird). Read about psychology and how people function (that part will help you in dealing with intel of the enemy, as well as dealing with your subordinates). Blink would be a good book to read in this regard. It actually touches on intelligence and MI, and how sometimes theres such a thing as "too much". When it comes to intel theres not much that you shouldn't read. You never know where information you pick up in a book will be useful or guide your decisions.

Also if you DO go intel, I recommend finding a "nerd niche". It sounds lame, but something that you can share and identify with other intel dudes is key. I work with dudes who paint miniatures, watch star trek, quote star wars, have lord of the rings tattoos, play DotA and WoW, Starcraft (original and new ones) and so much more. My "office" has giant 8-bit megaman wall stickers on it. And lee-enfields. Is that a pre-requisite? No. Does it fall into the "psychology" portion and being able to know your subordinates/co-workers? yea. (I fall under most of those categories that I listed btw. Not afraid to admit that)

Roger Mosque,

I appreciate your reply and the information you have shared. I see a reoccurring thread through the posts that give insight into how to be a "Good" Officer; and by "Good" Officer I mean an Officer that is successful in the eyes of his soldiers. Rather than successful in the climbing of the rank ladder. This is something I hope to implement in my future endeavors, given I earn the right to be in that position someday.

I have to say, I inhabit a few nerd niches every now and again, my girlfriend can definitely attest to that . I do realize the point you make by identifying with the soldiers you are serving with, as well as identifying with the enemy; I will definitely give these two some more thought.

Also, I am going to look into getting a copy of Islamic Brotherhood: The Unmaking of Terrorists, I am intrigued by your review of interesting/weird.

V/R

SmithCO

 

[Mosque]

I guess after that the next question would be what branch? and then what INT? is there a long term goal you're seeking to accomplish by getting into intel? or does it sound cool cause of the "james bond" aspect? I promise its nothing like james bond. The recruiter got me with that one, but I was young and dumb and didn't know what was out there and even my brother who was an 0311 played up MI (funny how he talked me out of going 03XX, but still calls me a POG..).

As for the INTs, you'll meet a lot of cool cats if you go the CI / HUMINT route. Stone faced dudes that you're really never sure if they're telling the truth or not, or just messing with you.

For SIGINT.. well you're not a true master of your trade unless you "see the code" and "feel the code on the walls"... long story, and not really true, but there are some genius' in SIGINT that make me never want to delve further into that trade. Also theres no windows. and the higher you go, the deeper into the basement you're sent, until you know too much and you're not allowed to leave. ;) But the NSA food court is awesome. I've never felt more physically fit than while people watching in the food court at NSA. The SOF dudes here would be titans.

 

[Ronnoc]

Mosque,

I am currently in the Army ROTC program and very much enjoy it. I have been planning on earning an Infantry commission and had that set in my sights for most my life as a long term goal. I really hadn't even thought about trying to do anything else until recently, and thought it would be ignorant to not at least learn about other branches.

When I first joined this community about a year ago, I started stumbling into more and more information about the Intelligence realm of things and that sparked my interest. At this point I am just trying to learn as much as I can about the Army Intelligence Community to see if that would be a better fit for me or not. Even after hours of reading, I still do not have a great understanding of what specific things each INT sect does; or let alone how to get into them as an O. I definitely am intrigued by the CI / HUMINT route, but I honestly do not know much about either.

I am probably giving this more thought than I should be, as it is way off in the future and there is no guarantee I will be doing either.

 

[pardus]

Since when do Officer's get to choose their MOS?

 

[AWP]

Since when do Officer's get to choose their MOS?

Dream sheet. The Guard is a little different, and I'm not sure about the Reserves, but the AD guys and gals put down their tope 3 or 10 or whatever. Take the Army, I'm sure the others are kind of the same, West Point receives X number of Infantry slots, ROTC receives Y Infantry slots, and OCS receives Z number of Infantry slots. That goes for all of the branches (Artillery, Aviation, Army, etc.). You go on an OML and I want to say (Marauder06, a little help here?) that Army ROTC has a national OML of some form.

I know, in a former lifetime a billion years ago, that some ROTC schools received more slots of a certain kind than others. For example, Jacksonville University for whatever reason, had something like 20-30% of its newly minted Ensigns go to pre-flight. This was 20 years ago, but we had a few prior enlisted who specifically chose JU because of that number. At one point in the late 90's, JU grads who were medically qualified were an almost lock into Naval Aviation because of the exodus of aviators during that period.

For the Guard, your OCS candidates find a unit willing to hold a slot for them. That typically happens about 1/2 to 2/3's of the way through OCS. The TAC Officers tell you to start looking and the schoolhouse has all of the unit S-1's listed. You reach out to them, they arrange interviews, whatever. Some of us knew where we were going so there wasn't even that, the schoolhouse and unit handled that behind the scenes.

 

[Marauder06]

Since when do Officers get to choose their MOS?

One of the things you can do through commissioning sources now is to request specific branches for an additional service commitment. I'm not sure of the exact way it works but it can be done.

And I think technically officers don't have MOSs (even though pretty much everyone, including me, uses it). I think we have AOCs (areas of concentration). So my AOC is 35D. There are also identifiers like 35C, 35E, 35F, and 35G and I have most of those as well. But when anyone asks what my "MOS" is, I just say 35D.

 

[Ronnoc]

Since when do Officer's get to choose their MOS?

On top of the explanations of Freefalling and Marauder06, we were told the only surefire way to get branched where you want, is to rank in the top 10% of the National OML. We are allowed to rank 3 choices (INF, MI etc.); the top 10% on the OML get their first choice, next 10-15% get one of the three, the next 50%? gets assigned by the needs of the army, then this is where I am not a fan of the ranking system, but the 10-20% after the middle 50% get their first choice. There is good reasoning behind this approach, but that doesn't mean I have to be a fan of it; as it causes a lot of uncertainty if you're in my shoes:whatever:. Also, like Marauder06 mentioned there are other options like additional service commitments, or picking where you are stationed rather than your job etc. that you can select from.

Your ranking on the National OML is based primarily on; GPA, PT, Performance at Advanced Camp and performance/participation in your ROTC program/extra curricular activities (Color Guard, Part-Time job, Criminal Justice Club etc. (There probably are a few other factors that I cannot recall at this time).

Needless to say I am striving for placement in the top 10%, which reflects my interest in learning about MI etc.

 

[dirtmover]

Even then you still aren't locked in to what you want. One of my LTs explained it to me like this......they take a handful grads from the top, middle and the bottom for each job. They do this one to keep one branch from getting overloaded with "good" officers and the other branches getting stuck with the dirtbags. This in turn allow the cream to rise to the top so to speak and make the competitiveness for promotions more balanced.

 

[Marauder06]

That is absolutely correct. Every branch needs good officers, but there is (or at least, was) a huge disparity between the number of "good" officers-to-be who wanted branches like aviation, infantry, and MI, and... some of the other branches. It wouldn't be good for all of the potentially best commissionees to be overly-concentrated in a handful of branches while the others suffer. It sucks that some top people get force-branched and lower performers get a "better" branch, but I think it better meets the needs of the Army.

 

[AWP]

If you absolutely, positively want something like Intel, branch detail if you can. I know two guys who went that route. One went Intel, one went Signal; both were Infantry first....and both ended up at JSOC.

 

[Brill]

Don't they all? It seems that the majority of CF intel guys used to work for (insert favorite color here).

 

[Marauder06]

If you absolutely, positively want something like Intel, branch detail if you can. I know two guys who went that route. One went Intel, one went Signal; both were Infantry first....and both ended up at JSOC.

I agree. I think the branch detail program was very useful to me. As I said to one of my Infantry friends from this site: I'm very glad I spent four years in the Infantry. And I'm very glad I'm not doing it anymore ."

 

[Sampaguita]

I definitely am intrigued by the CI / HUMINT route, but I honestly do not know much about either.

What is it exactly that intrigues you about going the CI/HUMINT route? Do you know the difference between the two? What is your ST score? Can you get a clearance? If you have specific questions, that you can't find on a forum or online, you are probably better off going to an MI unit who can answer your questions one on one.

When I got asked to join the IC, I sat down with each specialty and got the down and dirty. There's definitely a difference between the two. There's also a difference in jobs between being an officer and being enlisted.

One thing I do agree on, is coming into the IC with a prior/different MOS.

 

[Viper1]

I can't say much about MI branch except for this: one of the best BN S-2's I ever worked with was a 2LT who was smart and well-read. He didn't conjuncture, rumor, or just believe. He analyzed and gave his assessments. Key words: analysis, assessments. The guys on the ground want to know those as soon as possible and by analyzing information correctly you can ensure accuracy, thus preventing what I call the "staff-commander spin-ex". That is when they go bonkers over some BS report from S-2 that is single source, un-vetted, and unverified.

Also, force the reporting to come to you correctly. A line of "an enemy attack is going to happen at an undetermined time at an undisclosed location" is not a good report. I've seen that line get briefed in a daily BUB and it doesn't end well. Ensure reports come to you in 5W format, SALT format, with as much information as possible so you can start calling to on-ground units to verify information. If it is unverified, state so in your brief to the staff and commanders. Let them know what units and agencies you passed the information on to. Give him realistic and accurate analysis. The final point: don't try to put an unconventional enemy into conventional "DOCTEMP" or "SITTEMP" boxes. Instead, get with the on-ground units and look at sources of instability. Where you find a source of instability, you'll find the enemy and you'll be able to analyze how that instability can be addressed.

Good luck with your endeavors. Marauder06 is an excellent MI officer and good POC. Mara, if I'm wrong on any of the above, let me know.