Freedom of speech vs. the ‘right’ to be heard....

[Ooh-Rah]

I’ve been watching with some interest “the internet’s” take on what defines free speech; specifically when it comes to how that speech is being broadcast. In recent years we’ve seen websites (specifically Facebook and Twitter) take a stronger stand on speech they consider objectionable. (Guns/politics/etc). Even Reddit, the supposed “old west” of the internet recently put a ban on trading/selling tobacco items; to include cigars.

“The internet” has lost their collective minds over this. Comparing these actions to Nazi Germany, communism, you name it. Truth be told, it is easy to allow yourself to get sucked into that way of thinking. “Yesterday I could do XYZ on Facebook, now they are blocking it! Fascists!”

Today I saw something in regards to Alex Jones’ (Inforwars) daily update no longer permitted on Facebook...followed of course by the obligatory “share if you agree” meme’s.

It got me to thinking, are Facebook/Twitter/Reddit truely making an overt effort to block free speech or messages they do not agree with? After much thought I have reached the conclusion that it is far less sinister....like so many other things, follow the money.

The ‘gun guys’ got mad at Dick’s when they dropped AR’s from their lineup....maybe Dick’s did not want to take a chance on getting sued by the family of someone massacred by a person who bought their gun there.

Maybe Facebook does not want to be the messenger for Alex Jones, who suggests that the kindergarten kids who were killed by a lone gunmen were not really killed, but part of a conspiracy to take our guns.

At the end of the day I think it has a lot more to do with not wanting to be sued, than it does censoring anyone’s right to free speech.

 

[Deleted member 2517]

Alex Jones can still go and stand on a soap box in downtown Austin and shout about dead kids being actors. He can say what he wants in his home, at a restaurant, and on his own website. It’s his right to peddle horse shit, and it’s the right of the people running the companies he used to use to propagate his horse shit to not allow him to speak using their medium. Everyone has freedom of expression. Alex can continue to express his his theories on his own, just like those companies can express their distaste for his aforementioned “theories.”

 

[Kraut783]

Social media outlets are companies and there is no right to be able to use one, violate their user agreements, that everyone digitally signs, but never reads, and you can be banned.

Get over it you crying babies on the internet.

 

[Devildoc]

Everyone has the right to free speech. No one has the right to be heard.

 

[Kraut783]

^---- THIS !

 

[Board and Seize]

As a semi-counterpoint, see this article from the WSJ (wasn't behind a paywall for me, YMMV).

Summary: Yes, 1st Amendment Freedom of Speech probably isn't at issue when FB, et al. deplatform someone. However, they are beginning to blur the platform/publisher boundary, and in any case, it is concerning that such a few companies have such outsize impact on the national discourse and can decide what viewpoints are permissible to discuss.

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

Hmmm, I can't stand Alax Jones or his bullshit inflammatory rants that I have seen.

But nobody finds it even a bit odd that he got booted from all major social media platforms, at the same time? I mean dude is not someone who showed up yesterday saying crazy shit, he has been around since the 90's and all of the sudden, in August of 2018, they all decide to kick him off at the same time?

Yeah, I'd say that it is politically motivated censorship. Mid-term elections are about to start spinning up heavy, and Jones has a lot of media influence and a lot of followers.

Hard to believe how fucked up things have become in our country.

 

[Devildoc]

Alex Jones is a nutbag, but he's the proverbial broken clock. Private business can choose to print or allow whatever it wants, but I admit it's difficult to figure out what to parse.

 

[The Hate Ape]

Theres a difference between spreading a message, lecturing or reporting and straight up trolling those who oppose your viewpoints.

Homie is a dipshit and Im tired of every tinfoil hat wearing, shovel face looking rih-tard getting an audience.

 

[Board and Seize]

Private business can choose to print or allow whatever it wants...

So this is where the nuance comes in. There is a legal distinction between Publisher and Platform. Publishers are responsible for the content they publish; they can be sued for libel, defamation, and the like. Platforms, are not responsible for the content they host. This is a shield that they use to avoid lawsuits for a whole range of things.

These Platforms are beginning to to act like Publishers, making editorial decisions. Part of the rationale for allowing them to act as Platforms is that they (supposedly) don't exercise such control. If they're going to cherry-pick what can and can't be posted/shared/etc, then perhaps they should be treated as Publishers and no longer allowed to hide behind the Safe Harbor provision of Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act (Wired article on the provision in question).

 

[amlove21]

I heard an interesting viewpoint (although I am no legal expert when it comes to this so bear with me).

If the likes of Milo and Alex Jones and some of the other ousted were to make a case that these businesses were in fact a monopoly (i.e., controlling the entire market share and preventing you from doing business effectively ending your career) then there may be a basis for a class action lawsuit.

If you get kicked of Facebook- where do you go? Myspace? How about YouTube- when they shadowban/demonetize your page because they don't like what you're saying and you have no reasonable alternative- is that discrimination?

Agree with @Board and Seize while it may not be a 1st amendment rights violation, and yes you do agree to certain behaviors while on the sites- the likes of FB and YouTube occupy a near stranglehold on what gets put out there and control a large portion of the narrative.

While I certainly don't agree with everything Milo says and pretty much nothing Alex Jones says, I don't think they should be censored. Don't like them? Don't watch.

PS, since Alex Jones was taken off the larger social media platforms, he's actually gotten his message amplified and more popular. Go figure.

 

[Ooh-Rah]

Alex Jones is a nutbag, but he's the proverbial broken clock. Private business can choose to print or allow whatever it wants, but I admit it's difficult to figure out what to parse.

I do not think for one minute that Alex Jones actually believes what he spews. Similar to Rush Limbaugh and his ilk, Jones has tapped into an audience that pays the bills. The more outrageous his claims, the more his ‘followers’ insist that naysayers are part of the government consperiency, and go to his website to add ‘clicks’, listen to his online radio show, and donate to the cause.

 

[amlove21]

I do not think for one minute that Alex Jones actually believes what he spews. Similar to Rush Limbaugh and his ilk, Jones has tapped into an audience that pays the bills. The more outrageous his claims, the more his ‘followers’ insist that naysayers are part of the government consperiency, and go to his website to add ‘clicks’, listen to his online radio show, and donate to the cause.

He is 100% annoying, I will tell you that much. How he can go from screaming about false flags and gay frogs into a read for supplements every 3 minutes makes him unbearable to even watch.

The only thing I ever hoped for AJ was that he actually pissed off Joe Rogan when they had their little back and forth and Joe was going to put Jones to sleep for a little bit. Unfortunately it didn't happen. But a guy can hope.

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

While I certainly don't agree with everything Milo says and pretty much nothing Alex Jones says, I don't think they should be censored. Don't like them? Don't watch.

I couldn't agree more with this.

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

I do not think for one minute that Alex Jones actually believes what he spews. Similar to Rush Limbaugh and his ilk, Jones has tapped into an audience that pays the bills. The more outrageous his claims, the more his ‘followers’ insist that naysayers are part of the government consperiency, and go to his website to add ‘clicks’, listen to his online radio show, and donate to the cause.

I don't know much about what he is doing these days, but back in the early 2000's I would occasionally listen to him on the radio, and he seemed to absolutely believe what he was talking about. I quit paying him any attention at all when I saw a YouTube video of him stirring shit up at a pro-2A rally in Austin about 7-8 years ago. It became pretty clear he was provoking a response from the other side, while the 2A people were trying to keep things civil.

My overall point is not really AJ or his content, but more so the censorship. I cannot stand The Young Turks anymore or less than I can the likes of AJ but I don't think they should be booted from social media platforms, and they have put out some pretty hateful and violent content in years past towards the far right.

ETA- I recently saw a video on FB of a MAGA rally, where some BLM protesters showed up and started with their chants. It was pretty interesting as the Trump supporters decided to give the leader of the BLM group a few minutes of unenterupted time to share their message. I was pretty shocked as the message was not what I had expected. It won't ever excuse their calling for dead cops in years past, or the tragic loss of several cops because of that group. But the message was not one of hate, and was very different than what I expected. All because some Trump supporters gave them a platform to say their message. I don't think BLM and Trump supporters are going to fundamentally agree on many things, but that day a bunch of them agreed on a few things....and that, in my opinion, is where we need to be as a country. Finding common ground and listening to other side, agreeing where we can, instead of focusing on what we disagree on and trying to overshoutor censor one another's message.

-found the video

 

[ThunderHorse]

It is censorship. For the moment it is allowed, yet Facebook, Twitter, youtube have monopolies in their sphere of influence. The reality is that there are some left leaning loons that have not been censored...so you either maintain a standard or you let it ride.

 

[GOTWA]

I do not think for one minute that Alex Jones actually believes what he spews. Similar to Rush Limbaugh and his ilk, Jones has tapped into an audience that pays the bills. The more outrageous his claims, the more his ‘followers’ insist that naysayers are part of the government consperiency, and go to his website to add ‘clicks’, listen to his online radio show, and donate to the cause.

The first thing that came to mind; is anyone caught up on Homeland?

 

[Gunz]

Everybody just needs to shut the fuck up.

 

[Blizzard]

Concur with all the thoughts here and will add...

The social media landscape is constantly evolving. There was MySpace. Then Facebook came along. Facebook has seen it's peak and likely will continue to devolve. The "kids" don't use it all...they'te on to Snap, IG, etc.

The fact is there are plenty of voices that want to be heard. When one platform decides to limit it's users/audience, for whatever reason, it creates opportunity for another channel to rise and even thrive at some level.

 

[Blizzard]

Everybody just needs to shut the fuck up.