G11 being reconsidered?

Ajax

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Holy Shit! Somebody get this guy's resume! I finally found someone more awesome than me! LMFAO!

I would like to say that the FN-FAL, the Galil, the AK varients, M-14... all fine, combat proven weapons. I have used all of them in various situations during combat, espionage, intelligence gathering, and otherwise. I would also like to say that I have used the SCAR system in combat and it has really gained my trust as a dependable and accurate weapon system. I would like to see it in 6.8 in addition to it's current 5.56 and 7.62. They also have a 7.62x39 configuration that is used during covert operations for full deniability.

Posted by: Operator 7 | September 29, 2008 at 09:52 AM

Yes, deniablility, that's why we want 7.62. Obviously a real "operator" who has been in the shit. I bet he has the stare. All "field" operators have it. I have it. Don't worry. Someday, you'll have it to.

Can I invent a new online abbeviation? I propose FTB because I get tired of typing Fucking Tool Bag.
 

pardus

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More helpful than the article are the comments from the former 10th grouper a few posts below the article.

....
Having been in 10th Group SF in the US Army for quite a few years, I have actually had the pleasure of putting a G-11 A2 through it's paces during the US Army's initial testing of the weapon. I have fired well over 5,000 rounds through one at various distances and in all types of scenarios.

In all honesty, there was not a single malfunction of the weapon whatsoever. It was literally 5,000 for 5,000, 100% operation even during it's break-in period (first 500 rounds). We were not allowed to clean it for the entirety of the testing, however when we were completed, we were instructed on field-strip and cleaning methods and told to clean them. Initially it was very dirty, but after a few patches down the barrel it was remarkably spotless. This weapon cleaned faster than anything I have ever run a brush through and I have run a brush through thousands of different weapons. This may all sound hard to believe, but this weapon maintains an excellent condition through extreme situations.

As far as firepower goes, this thing was an absolute beast! The muzzle velocity is HUGE providing serious penetration even with a small round. We used a variety of rounds: FMJ, JHP, AP, HEI, DU, and BTM. All, of course, were caseless squares that looked almost like some kind of snack food. They are actually very easy to load into a magazine, as the magazine is designed so you can just drop them in, then release the spring for tension. Works great! At ranges of 3 to 600 meters this gun performed remarkably well. You can actually select two different full auto modes, FULL 1 (480 RPM) and FULL 2 (1,600 RPM), however I believe this was only on the A2 that we tested in the late 80s. At FULL 2 you could fire all 50 rounds into a 6 inch target at 100 yards without loosing your sight picture or changing your stance. We also did quite a few shoot and move drills and this thing makes you feel like you're in a movie. Running and shooting with this is made so much easier. There is just the lightest recoil pulse and it is straight back; the muzzle does not jump. We did quite a few scenario tests for airplanes where we usually use one arm to aim, shoot, and one arm to climb. The weight of this weapon was perfect for such an activity. It is difficult to shoot accurately with one arm using an MP5 or MP7 submachinegun, but the G11 really makes it easy. (Nothing against the MP5 or MP7, I have used both extensively and they have a close place in my heart.)

Penetration with DU, AP, and BTM rounds was excellent. It would easily penetrate 6 to 7 inches of solid concrete. The FMJ rounds would penetrate 3 to 4 inches of solid concrete, but the second shot would always blow through the rest of the 3 to 4 inches remaining. Sending 3 shots downrange at BURST 3 (2,000 RPM) is a blast and I would challenge anyone to tell me they would hide behind a concrete barrier with the G11 pecking away at them.

Also, about the round used, the 4.73x33mm mentioned above is not what we used during testing. I could not tell you the exact caliber or dimensions, but it is bigger than a 5.56. I'd venture to say it's as big as a 7mm Rem Mag, but perhaps my memory does not serve me correctly. Either way, the rounds we used were extremely effective and extremely accurate at close to long range.

In conclusion, this would be my choice in a battlefield weapon. It is excellent in so many different ways, and highly versatile. Provided we did not do any environment testing (sand, water, mud, oil, etc.) other than normal training provides, this thing was put through grueling paces and performed perfectly. It kept up with some of the finest operators on this planet, and exceeded our expectations for the "crazy fuckin space ray" gun they put in our hands. Bottom line, the G11 A2 is a masterpiece. My only complaint is that I did not get to take one to Iraq and Afghanistan with me!

SGT_Kinsella: You are absolutely right about the 3 round burst, it is not used in training because it is usually slow enough to remove control of the weapon from the soldier for small periods of time. The few exceptions are with high-cyclic rate submachineguns that can fire 3 rounds in the time it would take an M16 to fire the first round in it's 3 round burst. This makes for a 3 for 1 type shooting scenario which is highly affective in CQB and Medium Range. The MP5-K PDW is a perfect example. You can 'Mozambique' somebody in one press of the trigger, and believe me... it is highly effective. It also increases the chance of hitting vital organs when you are taking snap shots on instinct. The sooner you hit those vitals, the faster they will come down, and in my line of work, Milliseconds count against you.

Posted by: Operator 7 | September 29, 2008 at 07:15 AM
 

pardus

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Ajax you just lost awesomeness points!
Don't you know it's SOP to carry a main battle rifle such as an FN or M14 while conducting espionage ops? :rolleyes:

That article is just one idiots opinion, until the Army says "we are looking at the G11" it's just one guy's wet dream.

IIRC it was the fall of the wall and the incorporating of east Germany that halted the adoption of the G11, I could be wrong though...

Holy Shit! Somebody get this guy's resume! I finally found someone more awesome than me! LMFAO!

Yes, deniablility, that's why we want 7.62. Obviously a real "operator" who has been in the shit. I bet he has the stare. All "field" operators have it. I have it. Don't worry. Someday, you'll have it to.

Can I invent a new online abbeviation? I propose FTB because I get tired of typing Fucking Tool Bag.
 

Ajax

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Yeah, I know. I'm lost on how to one-up this guy. I mean, he's already used the SCAR in combat! And passed it off as an indig weapon! There's no hope for me. I'm hanging up my spurs.:(

Have you seen one of these anywhere? I'd like to shoot one and see this caseless ammo for myself.
 

Diamondback 2/2

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Penetration with DU, AP, and BTM rounds was excellent. It would easily penetrate 6 to 7 inches of solid concrete. The FMJ rounds would penetrate 3 to 4 inches of solid concrete, but the second shot would always blow through the rest of the 3 to 4 inches remaining. Sending 3 shots downrange at BURST 3 (2,000 RPM) is a blast and I would challenge anyone to tell me they would hide behind a concrete barrier with the G11 pecking away at them.


If thats the cover I had at the time I would....:uhh: What a clownshoe!
 

AssadUSMC

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Yeah, I know. I'm lost on how to one-up this guy. I mean, he's already used the SCAR in combat! And passed it off as an indig weapon! There's no hope for me. I'm hanging up my spurs.:(

Have you seen one of these anywhere? I'd like to shoot one and see this caseless ammo for myself.

I actually did get to see a real G11 a LONG time ago. Before you go claiming Operator 7 on me, I was working at a gun store in L.A. (my college job) and one of my customers was one of the biggest "movie gun" guys in the biz (PM me if you want his name). Long story short, he had a G11 that Wesley Snipes was using in "Demolition Man". Very compact, very light... I've only seen pics of the ammo. He also showed me a very early Glock 18, FN P90, etc. Lucky him - not subject to the 1986 laws banning imports of new machine guns.
 

pardus

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Have you seen one of these anywhere? I'd like to shoot one and see this caseless ammo for myself.

Nah, ive never seen one, I think the concept is brilliant though.


I'd like to know if the Army really has opened the door for anything to come in as a possible replacement, seems dodgy to me, especially after all the crap thats been going on lately with the M4.

I want to hear it from an offical source or some one in the know.
 

AssadUSMC

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As for the G11? Nice concept. You go first.

Same here. I remember back in the '80s reading about how the Soviets were developing a chemical that would cause the caseless ammo to break down (i.e. disintegrate). Crazy stuff...

Personally, I'll stick with a 416.
 
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