Iraq and ISIS Discussion

The strike reminds me of Reagan's strike against Libya. Qaddafi fucked around a little, Ronnie dropped a couple dozen missiles on his houses, killed a son, and we didn't hear a peep for years afterwards.

A show of might may be what's required. Let them see that we are moving towards being the strong horse once again, and perhaps we'll gain some leverage. This isn't a call for invasion, by any means; rather, it's a flexing of muscle to establish credibility of force.
 
If Russia plans to send their old ass war ships towards a modern USN destroyer, they have lost their fucking minds. I mean like really, a Arleigh Burke class destroyer is a bad motherfucker.
 
It has established firmly that President Obama's so-called Red Line in the sand is no longer just empty rhetoric under the Trump administration; it has increased his international credibility and it has made him, at least figuratively, a perceived "defender of the innocent and a punisher of bad guys"... an image that plays well in the notoriously liberal media, which, I notice this morning, seems to be fairly supportive of Trump's decisive response.

I may be in the minority here, but this is the kind of message that needs to be sent when evil cunts resort to WMDs.

And @ThunderHorse, I had to disagree with you for these same reasons ^^

In fairness I think President Obama started to go to congress for approval to initiate a bombing campaign (not just cruise missiles) in 2013 but, when the whip started counting votes they weren't there - with something like only 12 Republicans supporting the measure (and Democrats not being universal in support). So, ultimately I don't think the vote happened and the whole plan was called off - rather than bombing without congressional approval. I even think President Obama took criticism - if not at the time at least around that time from citizen Trump via twitter for his plans to bomb Syria.

Granted, opinions change over 4 years and definitely over the support/credibility you give to who is in the whitehouse. I think both parties are always guilty of supporting/opposing things based on who is in the whitehouse but I think some of the 'President Trump is a decisive leader because of this while President Obama was a huge pussy' is brining in a lot more factors/biases than just these actions in Syria.
 
In fairness I think President Obama started to go to congress for approval to initiate a bombing campaign (not just cruise missiles) in 2013 but, when the whip started counting votes they weren't there - with something like only 12 Republicans supporting the measure (and Democrats not being universal in support). So, ultimately I don't think the vote happened and the whole plan was called off - rather than bombing without congressional approval. I even think President Obama took criticism - if not at the time at least around that time from citizen Trump via twitter for his plans to bomb Syria.

Granted, opinions change over 4 years and definitely over the support/credibility you give to who is in the whitehouse. I think both parties are always guilty of supporting/opposing things based on who is in the whitehouse but I think some of the 'President Trump is a decisive leader because of this while President Obama was a huge pussy' is brining in a lot more factors/biases than just these actions in Syria.

Come on, Obama warned Bashar not to use chemical weapons and Bashar went ahead and did it anyway. Obama did nothing in retaliation. Trump just destroyed 20 plane's of the Syrian Airforce and shot 59 cruise missiles in retaliation of another Bashar chemical weapons attack.

It's pretty cut and dry sir.

Now to debate if these chemical attacks are false flags to remove Bashar from power, is another debate in it of itself.

The innocent babies! THE BABIES!

 
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Come on, Obama warned Bashar not to use chemical weapons and Bashar went ahead and did it anyway. Obama did nothing in retaliation. Trump just destroyed 20 plane's of Syrian Airforce and shot 59 cruise missiles in retaliation of another Bashar chemical weapons attack.

It's pretty cut and dry sir.

Now to debate if these chemical attacks are false flags to remove Bashad from power, is another debate in it of itself.

The innocent babies! THE BABIES!


President Obama went to congress for permission to launch a bombing campaign, didn't have the votes, so cancelled the whole thing. President Trump fired cruise missiles without asking anybody's permission. It's definitely cut and dry - I just don't think it's as simple a comparison on toughness/intent. Probably no clearer dichotomy in styles - especially when non-President Trump was criticizing President Obama pretty intensely over the idea of bombing. I think it really shows the difference in how President Obama was extremely deliberative and thought a lot about authority/legacy and that kind of thing. President Trump does not give a fuck about that kind of stuff - or in being consistent. I think there's an argument to be made for the superiority of one type of executive action (or to my mind somewhere in between) but the difference is definitely stark.

I think President Obama did end up 'doing something' in that he cut a Russia-brokered deal to destroy/dismantle the Syrian chemical weapons program as it stood at the time. I think it's pretty interesting to look at what the administration thought they were getting/showing with that deal with where we are vis-a-vis Russia now. I think some Obama administration folks with hindsight may not be as excited about that move in terms of legacy and precedent.
 
This is pretty cut and dry. SAAF bombs a target, we suspect with chemical munitions (haven't seen it), but I did see the video of tomahawks getting launched, nice touch. Why am I a more apt to believe it was a bombing of an Al Nusra Chemical weapons depot? Because as I've said, we have no sources on the ground, and haven't had any sources on the ground. All the information that the Western media publishes about casualty figures comes from SOHR or IS themselves. Do you want to believe this crap? I won't. Give me the damn proof. We went well past the trust the government threshold awhile ago.

Now back to Trump doing a hopeful one off...that's a fast targeting cycle. Considering the last guy drew a red line and basically just kept funding and arming jihadis. It is sort of funny how folks were like: YOU MUST DO SOMETHING...he did something...WHY DID YOU DO IT?

Red Dawn is a documentary...but uh, that's what we're dealing with here, two Nuclear powers on the opposite side in a proxy war over ideals...what we're supporting I don't even know. Them, secularism and deep water port access.

Can someone break it down for me what supporting any of these rebels actually did for us? Yeah, the Saudis are Sunnis and hate Alawites, well those Wahhabists are worse. America First, right? So how does this put America first and make us safer.
 
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I see it a bit like the new teacher classroom... the kids will test the teacher to see what they can get away with. Assad, with Russia's blessing, essentially said let's see how the new guy (Trump) responds to this (we know the old guy blew a lot of smoke). This new guy has been talking a lot like the old guy with words flying in every direction (to NK, to China, to us, etc.). I'll test him to see if he's got the cajones to step up and if he just sits on his hands like all the other guys (previous President and other world leaders), maybe we can just fast track an end to this uprising. BTW, NK and China...watch this.

Well, they got their answer. The new guy is not the old guy.

The only "issue" (for lack of a better word) that I have is best described in this article posted by @Marauder06 the other day: #NotOurProblem: Three Reasons Why We're Getting A Little Ahead Of Ourselves On This Latest "Syrian Gassing" Thing

We better be 100% confident that what went down is what we say went down. Facts matter. This is where Trump's credibility gets called to the table and why some of the crazy ass accusations over the past couple months become important. I'm giving him the benefit of doubt right now. But he better have his shit squared away on this thing. Pronto.
 
This is pretty cut and dry. SAAF bombs a target, we suspect with chemical munitions (haven't seen it), but I did see the video of tomahawks getting launched, nice touch. Why am I a more apt to believe it was a bombing of an Al Nusra Chemical weapons depot? Because as I've said, we have no sources on the ground, and haven't had any sources on the ground. All the information that the Western media publishes about casualty figures comes from SOHR or IS themselves. Do you want to believe this crap? I won't. Give me the damn proof. We went well past the trust the government threshold awhile ago.
Nice to see that you're buying the RT line. The casualty figures, as well as assessment of sarin exposure, are coming from Doctors Without Borders and WHO. Both of those organizations are notably distinct from IS.

Also, actual chemical weapons experts are saying that the notion of a chemical weapons depot is patently absurd What we know about Syria's chemical weapons - CNN.com
But Dan Kaszeta, a chemical weapons specialist and managing director of Strongpoint Security, told CNN that the Russian version of events was "highly implausible."
All the nerve agents used in the Syrian conflict so far have been binary nerve agents, he said, which are mixed from different components within a few days of use. This is done because of the difficulties of handling agents such as Sarin, which has a very short shelf life, he said.
"Nerve agents are the result of a very expensive, exotic, industrial chemical process -- these are not something you just whip up," he said.
The idea that the Syrian opposition would be able to build the covert supply chain to make a nerve agent and then would move it around and store it in a warehouse, rather than a bunker, makes no sense, Kaszeta said.
"It's much more plausible that Assad, who's used nerve agents in the past, is using them again," he said.

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Charles Lister, a senior fellow at the US-based Middle East Institute, also rejected the Russian account of what happened as "laughable."
"Are we seriously meant to believe that the opposition has a latent chemical weapons capability, and yet somehow, it has only ever suffered the effects of its own weapons and failed to use them itself?" he said.
What happened in Khan Sheikhoun "is an almost exact replication of what we saw in the summer of 2013," Lister told CNN, adding that it had targeted a key staging area for an opposition push into northern Hama late last month.
Lister also highlighted the issue that all nerve agents known to be in Syria are binary weapons.
"First of all, nobody in their right mind would ever store both both components of a binary nerve agent in the same building. And secondly, even if they were stored together and then targeted, blowing them up would not result in any active nerve agent -- it's chemically impossible," he said.
 
AFN's news channel has Chris Matthews on right now and the "Wag the Dog" topic is on. This Syria thing is hilariously sad. I'm laughing through tears.
 
So uh...the Russians dispatched a squadron to the Eastern Med.

BDA is at 20 Syrian planes: Russian warship steams toward US destroyers that launched Syria strikes
Let's just pull a page out of the Russian's own playbook with "Rapid Raptor - Phase 2" (my own creation); have a 2 ship flight of F-22's pay a visit over the Admiral Grigorovich tonight. The Russians don't see or hear them coming but we leave them with a low altitude sonic boom as a present for their efforts as they pass over... Go and show your crazy.

^ Not really but the thought still kind of warms me. ;-)

Reports and BDA photos indicate the runway at Shaayrat was untouched and supposedly two Syrian aircraft departed from it earlier today.
 
^^^That's funny...and sad at the same time...

But I believe the intention here was more of a shot across the bow as opposed to a rain of death and destruction. A very sensible and shrewd man named Mattis was charged with coming up with the option list, and I could see him recommending this particular course of action. Minimal damage, very few casualties, a tip-off to the Russians (and hence to the Syrians), and no danger to American lives and assets.

The message being: "Right now you're getting a fireworks show...the next time we put one right up your ass."
 
"point" Hilary...
aka: "well played Ms. Clinton, well played...."

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To add....

There is NOTHING this woman will ever say that I will not be immediately suspect of. Amazing that I am able to find someone's words who I trust less that Hilary's.

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