Iraq and ISIS Discussion

[pardus]

He will always have a place to stay at the Fletcher Memorial Home

T

Thats what I was getting at in a roundabout way. The air component of Gulf War 1 went for 34 days. Does ISIS have any air defence toys?

I seem to recall something about them having handheld SAMs now but I'm not 100% sure on that.

 

[CQB]

Yes, I seem to recall something too along those lines, some vague stats or something.

 

[pardus]

Yes, I seem to recall something too along those lines, some vague stats or something.

With all the Army defectors and captured weapons in Syria, I'd be bloody surprised if they didn't have a fair number of them.

 

[DA SWO]

He will always have a place to stay at the Fletcher Memorial Home


I seem to recall something about them having handheld SAMs now but I'm not 100% sure on that.

I saw a link on Drudge that said ISIS/ISIL grabbed some Stingers.
Don't know if it's valid (was busy and did not open link)

 

[Marine0311]

ISIS took over some army depot in the latest town and should be driving around all those humvees the U.S bought for Iraq

 

[Red-Dot]

Just kicking the tyres but what if any, ground to air capability do ISIS have?

Manpads (SA-7 and maybe SA-14's) are almost a given....I would not be surprised if they somehow got their dickbeaters on some Stingers.

ZSU 23-2's are also quite possible....all of this of course is only an educated guess.

 

[Viper1]

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...errorists_isis_will_regret_not_following.html

There may be hope yet...

 

[RackMaster]

Bring in the B-52s and carpet bomb them a la Vietnam.

Agreed! I'm sure we all still have stockpiles of rounds that need decommissioning. What better way than to clean up the desert.

 

[pardus]

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...errorists_isis_will_regret_not_following.html

There may be hope yet...

Indeed.




Bin Laden, the voice of reason...

 

[Viper1]

Some fundamentals just don't change. A lot of that can be applied to COIN as well. How many of those rules were violated by Western Powers in Algeria, Vietnam, etc?

 

[ScribblerSix]

Some fundamentals just don't change. A lot of that can be applied to COIN as well. How many of those rules were violated by Western Powers in Algeria, Vietnam, etc?

Sorry, just to clarify are you talking about the fundamentals that were applied by the West to conflict for those conflicts or by the other side, the FLN and other groups, their violations of being good insurgents?

 

[Viper1]

Sorry, just to clarify are you talking about the fundamentals that were applied by the West to conflict for those conflicts or by the other side, the FLN and other groups, their violations of being good insurgents?

No, I am saying that the seven rules from the Slate article can be seen as fundamentals. The article applies those fundamentals to the insurgents. I was stating that those fundamentals can apply to the COIN force as well.

 

[ScribblerSix]

No, I am saying that the seven rules from the Slate article can be seen as fundamentals. The article applies those fundamentals to the insurgents. I was stating that those fundamentals can apply to the COIN force as well.

I think a good example was the NV ' capture of Saigon. I remember everyone thought they would slaughter the civies like Pol Pot would later do. For example, the females were worried they'd be shot for wearing American clothing.

They took the city, shot the top leadership who were stupid enough to stay in the city, sent the intellectuals to reeducation camps, but didnt touch the main fabric of society. They immediately set about turning the the electricity on, and everyone continued on with their lives as they would (just with no more war). They're still in power to this day.

My question is though, can ISIS or Maliki do the same if you have a heterogenous society like Iraq? Not changing the social fabric once you occupy a place that's so different ethnically, religious, from you seems very hard.

 

[CQB]

Not from what I'm reading, ISIS are changing it drastically.

 

[ScribblerSix]

Not from what I'm reading, ISIS are changing it drastically.

Not sure, they entered Tikrit and people said they were quite polite. Also, they're willing to let Hindu Indian nurses continue doing their jobs: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...es-to-stay-in-Tikrit/articleshow/36781443.cms

 

[CQB]

From the information I'm seeing they are keeping infrastructure in place, medical, garbage disposal, re-education, pledges of support by tribesmen, burning of cigarettes, women in Burkhas & paying the tax by Christians. But I am rather suspicious of their future moves.
My suspicions are based on dealing with and speaking with ME minorities, Kurds, Mandayans, Copts, Catholics, Maronites & Assyrians. They all tell the same story and the story is one of antagonism towards them. I add that this was about five or so years ago before ISIS existed. Let's see if their claim of wanting to belong to a unitary government holds any water.

 

[AWP]

The Taliban didn't storm into cities and become the guys we know overnight. They didn't implement their brand of crazy until that area was under thir thumb and THEN they brought out the hammer. I wouldn't expect ISIS/ ISIL to be any different. Take the area, solidify your hold, and then make changes.

 

[CQB]

I concur, I stopped short in the above post of mentioning the crucifixions and public square executions.

 

[CQB]

A little more on The Jordanian border.
http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/sec...g.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter#

 

[ScribblerSix]

I concur, I stopped short in the above post of mentioning the crucifixions and public square executions.

You have to ask though, do you think the Sunnis now under their "iron thumb" care? They did when al-Zarqawi previously tried this sort of thing and rebelled and that was the Sunni "Al-Anbar Awakening".

You would think ISIS would have learned from the most mistakes... don't piss off the locals.