Iraq and ISIS Discussion

... if they are to one day declare independence of Kurdistan.
I don't work for the State Department so I'm not completely up to date, but i dont think this in line with US foreign policy.

Even if it were, I don't see it working. They are landlocked, even if they had Mosul or Kirkuk, who would export their oil at a reasonable rate if at all?
 
I don't work for the State Department so I'm not completely up to date, but i don't think this in line with US foreign policy
My limited understanding agrees with your statement, I think this has been the DoS policy since we entered back in 2003. I remember Secretary Rice being very stern about Kurdistan staying under the Iraqi flag post Saddam.

Even if it were, I don't see it working. They are landlocked, even if they had Mosul or Kirkuk, who would export their oil at a reasonable rate if at all?
Kurds believe that Kirkuk is theirs, which helps them with its oil supplies for sure. But yes, I don't think relying on their limited oil supply in the northern part of Iraq is going to give them enough of a budget to run a country. As far as exporting goes, they will have major issues with the bordering states (Turkey being the only one that would buy any oil, but oil and water don't mix), then again, the Kurds want parts of Iran, Turkey, and Syria as well. They certainly need access to open waters for exporting and that is no easy task, Syria and Turkey won't easily give up any piece of the Mediterranean Sea shoreline.
 
Kurds believe that Kirkuk is theirs... Kurds want parts of Iran, Turkey, and Syria as well.
Kurds believe most of the middle East is theirs, I think their claims are irrelevant as various groups have controlled the area at different times. There were times were the Turks (Ottomans) held control, and times when the Persians controlled it.

Salah al-Din is said to have been a Kurd, since he was ruler of Abbasid Caliphate, those borders would also give the Kurds Israel and North Africa.
 
Too many competing interests within the Kurds. They'll accomplish nothing without western support.
I wouldn't really want the Kurds to win, just to be powerful enough to give IS, Turkey, and Iran the run-around.
 
The problem with the Iraqi Army and the Peshmerga, is they were never taught how to wage war and they fail to learn on their own.

True that they fail to learn on their own, but completely untrue that we haven't taught them how to wage war. We are even currently doing it with various programs. The problem is culture.
 
I wouldn't really want the Kurds to win, just to be powerful enough to give IS, Turkey, and Iran the run-around.

They are and mostly have always been an Iranian proxy, so I see them giving problems to Iran. There's only a small portion of them that have ever been against the Iranians, and I think they are all but mitigated at this point.
 
Kurds believe most of the middle East is theirs, I think their claims are irrelevant as various groups have controlled the area at different times. There were times were the Turks (Ottomans) held control, and times when the Persians controlled it.

Salah al-Din is said to have been a Kurd, since he was ruler of Abbasid Caliphate, those borders would also give the Kurds Israel and North Africa.
Yes, but their claim to those parts is based on the population that's living there at the moment. The majority of West Azerbaijan providence and Kurdistan providence in Iran are Kurdish. Same is true for southern Turkey and norther Syria; they have had northern Iraq since the 1980 war. It would be fair (used loosely) to support their claim to those parts as none of Syria, Turkey, and Iran are friends of ours. Turkey is a wolf in sheep's clothing. At least we can count on Kurdistan as a true ally with a great strategic position then.
 
There's only a small portion of them that have ever been against the Iranians, and I think they are all but mitigated at this point.
What makes you say this? Given that both Talabani and Barzani are state enemies of Iran and both their families were forced out of Iran, this comes as a bit of news to me.
 
Yes, but their claim to those parts is based on the population that's living there at the moment. The majority of West Azerbaijan providence and Kurdistan providence in Iran are Kurdish. Same is true for southern Turkey and norther Syria; they have had northern Iraq since the 1980 war. It would be fair (used loosely) to support their claim to those parts as none of Syria, Turkey, and Iran are friends of ours. Turkey is a wolf in sheep's clothing. At least we can count on Kurdistan as a true ally with a great strategic position then.

The 1980 war where we were supporting Iraq against the Iranians and Kurds?
 
The 1980 war where we were supporting Iraq against the Iranians and Kurds?
Yes, that is the war. There were some Kurds who were helping Iraq too, but many of the pro-Iran Kurds escaped and turned against Iran at the end of the war and settled in the northern part of Iraq.
 
What? the KDP and PUK were both Iranian proxies during the first Gulf war
Yes, but times have changed just as we were allies with Saddam during that war. The Ahmadinejad regime changed that relationship, which was weakening in the 1990's. PAK is one of Kurdish groups that has been against the Iranian regime for years, they are active in Iran even though a lot of their forces are fighting ISIS right now. To Dismiss all Kurds as Iranian proxies is not wise, at times of war, people do befriend enemies.
 
Yes, but times have changed just as we were allies with Saddam during that war. The Ahmadinejad regime changed that relationship, which was weakening in the 1990's. PAK is one of Kurdish groups that has been against the Iranian regime for years, they are active in Iran even though a lot of their forces are fighting ISIS right now. To Dismiss all Kurds as Iranian proxies is not wise, at times of war, people do befriend enemies.

Absolutely and I did mistakenly give the impression that that was my intent. I dismiss the Kurds as a whole because it has never accomplished anything. I will submit that it is a proud and capable people when propped up by western interests, but take away our support and they are nothing more than another Assyrian like population.

And the 12 people running around Iran right now under a PAK banner are insignificant. Any real Kurd has already left to fight in Iraq and Syria.
 
True that they fail to learn on their own, but completely untrue that we haven't taught them how to wage war. We are even currently doing it with various programs. The problem is culture.
Completely true, sorry.

The programs are a known entity, they are on the news everyday- and they aren't really working. I was there in '14 and again in '15 doing them.
 
Iran is pretty good at shutting down any Kurdish resistance within its borders so there really isn't many Kurds fighting there, but there is good trail of blood going years back, most are Sorani Kurds. But yes I do agree that without western or Soviet Union's support, they haven't accomplished anything. PAK does have a very real front against ISIS at the moment, they have been in the news multiple times recently. I think there is some hope in PAK, corruption runs deep with Barzanis.
 
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