Iraq and ISIS Discussion

[Totentanz]

His comments were one degree seperated from, "if everyone stopped fighting, no one would be fighting anymore."

"Last year I went to Iraq. Before Team America showed up, it was a happy place. They had flowery meadows and rainbow skies, and rivers made of chocolate, where the children danced and laughed and played with gumdrop smiles"

 

[Brill]

"Last year I went to Iraq. Before Team America showed up, it was a happy place. They had flowery meadows and rainbow skies, and rivers made of chocolate, where the children danced and laughed and played with gumdrop smiles"

I always did enjoy Kurdistan.

 

[The Hate Ape]

Hmmmm, about that.



... And the Taliban, remember how they crumbled after a few weeks back in 2001? Russia, Syria, Iran, and Iraq have thrown much more at ISIS than the US did at the Taliban back in '01 and early '02, and they've been doing it for years.

Bravado and 'Merica lines aside, they're (Taliban and ISIS) not the same when it comes to fortitude. The differences are astounding. No doubt that the latter half is much more educated, technically savvy, and are a cunning propaganda machine but that really is the bulk of their punch. Their resourcefulness is all that sustains them.

Everything changes in the scope of battlefield geomatry and whatnot constantly, the enemy I remember in both countries are entirely different with regard to sheer grit and stamina.

 

[The Hate Ape]

That ship has long since sailed. ISIS, Al Nusra, Jaysh Al Islam, et al. are all going to make sure Syria is neither free nor secular.

Here's what we are looking at-
1.a. Russia backs Assad, crushes the rebellion and Syria is left as a strong ally.
1.b. Russia gives just enough aid to leave all parties broken and impotent, leaving Syria as a puppet state, dependant on Russia for rebuilding.
2. Russia gives up and ISIS gains total control of Syria.
3. The US protects their imperfect partnership with The Kurds while allowing the undesirables in Syria to continue killing each other.

The goal of UW isn't always to overthrow, it's also conducted to degrade.

1B. Was a really intuitive point and totally plausible.
3. Is probably going to happen regardless of all other outcomes.

 

[ThunderHorse]

Bravado and 'Merica lines aside, they're (Taliban and ISIS) not the same when it comes to fortitude. The differences are astounding. No doubt that the latter half is much more educated, technically savvy, and are a cunning propaganda machine but that really is the bulk of their punch. Their resourcefulness is all that sustains them.

Everything changes in the scope of battlefield geomatry and whatnot constantly, the enemy I remember in both countries are entirely different with regard to sheer grit and stamina.

Taliban seem to still be around. . .

 

[TLDR20]

Taliban seem to still be around. . .

I think you missed the point entirely.

 

[ThunderHorse]

Uh no.

 

[Etype]

Bravado and 'Merica lines aside, they're (Taliban and ISIS) not the same when it comes to fortitude. The differences are astounding. No doubt that the latter half is much more educated, technically savvy, and are a cunning propaganda machine but that really is the bulk of their punch. Their resourcefulness is all that sustains them.

Everything changes in the scope of battlefield geomatry and whatnot constantly, the enemy I remember in both countries are entirely different with regard to sheer grit and stamina.

Uh no.

The Taliban rose up, in a power vacuum (aside from other warbands/militias/whatever), to become a legitimate government. They quickly crumbled into an insurgency at the slightest application of pressure.

ISIS rose up in the face of two regional powers and took ground from them, carving out its own territory. It continues to stand defiant against two nation-states, despite external assistance to both.

 

[AWP]

The Taliban rose up, in a power vacuum (aside from other warbands/militias/whatever), to become a legitimate government. They quickly crumbled into an insurgency at the slightest application of pressure.

They've also enjoyed major support from the Pakistani gov't. Were it not for that I don't think they could take the country in '96. If they succeeded they would lack staying power post-2001. PK's propped them up every step of the way.

 

[Brill]

They've also enjoyed major support from the Pakistani gov't. Were it not for that I don't think they could take the country in '96. If they succeeded they would lack staying power post-2001. PK's propped them up every step of the way.

And...who propped up the PK gov???

 

[Teufel]

The Taliban rose up, in a power vacuum (aside from other warbands/militias/whatever), to become a legitimate government. They quickly crumbled into an insurgency at the slightest application of pressure.

ISIS rose up in the face of two regional powers and took ground from them, carving out its own territory. It continues to stand defiant against two nation-states, despite external assistance to both.

Excellent assessments in this thread. I would also add that the Taliban were very unified and very ideologically motivated when they rose to power. This was not the case when they were deposed. Many narco-terrorists, local militias, and other criminal opportunists were happy to fly the Taliban banner for an increase in funding and notoriety but I would argue that the vast majority of them did not espouse the Taliban ideology or forego their own personal agendas to support Taliban regional or national objectives. I believe that these dissociated groups were lashed together with funding lines and unified in name only. To put it another way, the Taliban were created to stem warlord abuses and establish an Islamic theocracy in Afghanistan. The current Taliban leadership may continue to pursue these goals but I believe that most "Taliban" militia groups are more concerned with protecting their narcotics trafficking and regional power bases than they are with returning the country to religious rule and Sharia law. This is one of the many reasons why the Taliban are so fractured and tend to fall apart when put under pressure.

 

[Teufel]

Take a look at the FARC and the ELN in Colombia. The FARC and the ELN started as a marxist/socialist guerrilla movements that aimed to overthrow the Colombian government. Both used drugs to finance their insurgencies but allowed their ideologies to fade as narcotics trafficking took center stage in their organizations. The means eventually became the ends. This is something the Taliban have to struggle with at both the regional and national level.

 

[Ooh-Rah]

The original statement made by Hillary caused me to laugh-out-loud.

The 3rd Twitter comment made by Luis caused me to laugh even harder.

 

[AWP]

The original statement made by Hillary caused me to laugh-out-loud.

We also had a red line in the sand and no boots on the ground, both of which are "myth busted." As for no more troops or no troops..."the lie detector test has determined...that is a lie."

Sent from my Blackberry via my bathroom

 

[CQB]

Meanwhile, ISIS have banned the burkha.
ISIS Bans Burqas: Islamic State Deems Hijab A Security Problem In Iraq

 

[ThunderHorse]

Cease Fire for whom? US And Russia Announce Syria Peace Plan

 

[Kraut783]

well, John Kerry on the job...I'm sure it will go smooth :whatever:

 

[AWP]

Kerry announces US-Russia deal on Syrian ceasefire - CNNPolitics.com

Kerry said this cooperation would entail "some sharing of information," with Russia pertaining to the delineation of the various groups on the battlefield.

I see Russia got what it wanted. At least they have have a "W" out of all this....

 

[Gunz]

The Iranians, the Russians...they must love Kerry. To them he's Play Dough Gumby.

 

[ThunderHorse]

So based on this ceasefire...nothing will change: RAH