Iraq and ISIS Discussion
- Thread starter Kraut783
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Just a question and not necessarily exactly what I think but, as Americans do you don’t think it’s our duty to get involved? I agree that when one of our citizens/war fighters are killed fighting it pisses me off, and I question why they are there same as you. It seems our roots are deep in attempting to help others. My understanding is (at least in Syria) we’re there to kill ISIS? Doesn’t that help the world stabilize or am I being too naïve? Without our help wouldn’t ISIS still be doing public beheadings in Raqqa?
I see it too, and again this is where it makes the topic very complex for me but isn’t fighting dirt bags in other countries better than fighting them here (easy for a dude that is sitting on his couch watching a movie with his boy)? Especially with hard men that want to do nothing more than kill the enemies of our country. The flip side of that being, they may be more fighting for one another not so much the “mission/objective.” Insert a Hoot line from Blackhawk Down about politics, bullets, and a window. Maybe I have a difficult time on coming up with a stance because I’m not educated enough on the issues.
ThunderHorse
Verified Military
I don't. We should be calculated where we do get involved. We armed rebel groups that either defected or were murdered by ISIS and pretty much armed ISIS for awhile based on that. For the most part, none of those rebel groups fit our ideology of values. But fuck it, it's not Assad so we're ok with it? Even though women didn't have to cover their faces and could attend University before the country broke out in Civil War. Yet we're also partners with some of the worst regimes in the world when it comes to Womens and Human rights. Stupid.
The longer we're at War, where people have no idea why, the less the American People have the stomach for it. 17 years in Afghanistan man, there are people enlisting that don't know what it was like right after 9/11.
Yeah, man. I certainly understand that. Seems Afghanistan will be Germany but with green on blue attacks mixed in with a helicopter crash every once in a while that claims too many. Robert O’Niell said in his book he had to get out because he wasn’t taking the danger of the job seriously anymore because he was numb to it. Say what you will about the man but that is a profound statement about how hard an “all volunteer” force has worked. Even more frustrating that the typical American citizen hasn’t been ask to sacrifice anything (great credit to our Vietnam brothers in that aspect). I give great credit to those enlisting now. I think we at least thought we could win something. Second time I’ve used this quote but..
”before we let them kill him (Saddam) we should ask him how to run the country (Iraq)...”
Of course we have a duty to get involved. We helped create the situation in Iraq and ISIS took advantage of the power vacuum when we unassed the AO. Russia helped create the situation by backing the asshat regimes in Syria since the 1950s.
Look, when 9/11 happened, we vowed to fight terrorism globally. If burning people alive and cutting off their heads on video by radical Islamic jihadists isn't terrorism, WTF is? We've lost a lot of people fighting Fedayeen, AQ, TB and various and sundry Islamic terrorist bastards in OEF/OIF. Did all our folks die in vain, just to see some sadistic fucks come in and massacre everybody?
The bottom line is, ISIS is as much an enemy of America as AQ was and needs to be fucking hunted down and eradicated like the human cockroaches they are. It churns my guts to read about brave young Americans getting killed. But ISIS needs to die.
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Disagree, the Iraqi government gutted the military leadership and put people in based on tribal allegiances, they had the equipment to fight ISIS and chose the wrong path.
No reason for us to be in Syria, I believe a President Clinton in the WH now would have led to a war with Russia over Syria, at least the current regime has delayed what might be the inevitable result of us going into Syria.
But didn't we early on disband the entire Iraqi military and Ba'athist infrastructure?
All I know is that ISIS is just another in the long line of jihadists who consider America the enemy, and therefore, we should reciprocate.
ISIS would still be a thing without US involvement.
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The MERV (Middle Euphrates River Valley) is the demarcation between our guys and the Russians/ Syrians. We have a direct line to the Russians and they're getting better about using it. With that said, they are habitual linesteppers. Our use of airpower is TIGHTLY controlled. This isn't "back in the day" where a GFC could declare a TIC and have "auto-CAS" at their disposal.
The Russians knew what they were doing..and so did we.
Now they've committed two of their Su-57 stealth fighters to the region. Let;s see how that escalation goes.
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The MERV (Middle Euphrates River Valley) is the demarcation between our guys and the Russians/ Syrians. We have a direct line to the Russians and they're getting better about using it. With that said, they are habitual linesteppers. Our use of airpower is TIGHTLY controlled. This isn't "back in the day" where a GFC could declare a TIC and have "auto-CAS" at their disposal.
The Russians knew what they were doing..and so did we.
Now they've committed two of their Su-57 stealth fighters to the region. Let;s see how that escalation goes.
Let me clarify my post. I believe it was our duty as part of the GWOT to help fight the cancer that ISIS became. I don't think it's our duty to stay involved once ISIS has been driven back into the shadows. I don't think it's our duty to linger and become involved in the Syrian clusterfuck beyond the material support of certain factions we've already made commitments to. Small footprint once ISIS dissolves as a cohesive entity and GTFO.
Or is that not possible anymore? @AWP ? Are we entrenched with no exit strategy here? ISIS is beoming less of a factor every day.
Or is that not possible anymore? @AWP ? Are we entrenched with no exit strategy here? ISIS is beoming less of a factor every day.
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I can't speak for the soup sandwich that is the ME, however ISIS has already made inroads to SE Asia not to mention the various other Islamic terror organizations that have cropped up in the region as well as the long standing issue of Africa.
The GWOT is something that can in my opinion never be won, atleast with the current measures in place every terror group we push back into the shadows a new one will take it's place. It's easy to destroy the physical (ISIS infrastructure, etc.) however it's almost impossible to destroy an ideology.
I honestly don't know that.
You can kill a man, you can't kill an idea. The best you can do is make that idea cost prohibitive to its followers so that fewer and fewer people follow the idea.
I agree that it can never be won militarily. Only time will devolve Islamic jihadist fanaticism and for all we know the time-frame could be another 200 years or more, given its roots and resiliency. We will never see the end of terrorism, Islamic or not, because it is a cheap and dirty empowerment of the angry, discontented weak.
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Another attack with chemical agents? If true, let's see if Trump does anything.
If Reports Of Deadly Gas Attack In Syria Are True Will U.S. Strike As Promised?
If Reports Of Deadly Gas Attack In Syria Are True Will U.S. Strike As Promised?
"Massive Explosions" Heard Above Syria Amid Reports Of Fighter Jets Airstrikes; Pentagon Denies
AP tweets: "U.S. Officials : The United States is not carrying out airstrikes in Syria."
AP tweets: "U.S. Officials : The United States is not carrying out airstrikes in Syria."
Devildoc
Verified Military
@Chopstick , I wonder if this is what happened:
Israel blamed for missile strike in Syria; 14 reported dead :: WRAL.com
Israel blamed for missile strike in Syria; 14 reported dead :: WRAL.com
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Good for Israel. And I doubt very much the claims that Syria shot down 5 IAF F15s during the attack.
ThunderHorse
Verified Military
Are we really gonna do this? If so I'd like to see the amount of recall orders are being generated right now.
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