When I was making the choice there was no talk about issues with EOTech. I preferred the ACOG because it allowed me to see further and didn't require batteries.
Is the Eotech hate actually justified?
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I use an ACOG for the same reason. Gives me another optic I can use quickly, and I don't have to carry yet another set of spare batteries.
Stormer_117
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I wouldnt compare magnified to non-magnified sights though, that's like apples and oranges.
104TN
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Mmm. IDK about that. There are a lot of 1-4/1-6X scopes out there (Bushnell, VX-R and Mark 4 MR/T, AccuPoint, Strike Eagle and Viper PST II, XTR II, etc.) one could make a pretty compelling argument surpass the current field of red dot sights both in terms of capability and value.
TLDR20
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Lol. Speaking from your vast repertoire of knowledge?
Stormer_117
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If you had a choice to clear a room with an ACOG or an Aimpoint/Eotech, would you not choose the latter every time?
I'm just talking about CQB ranges here... courses for horses man... (or is it the other way around?)
...then you should have led with that. There's a lot more to preparing for combat than CQB. The types of engagements I was expecting were longer-range, either out of a helicopter or a truck. ACOG suited that just fine. That said, in training I never had any problems using either flip-up sights or the fixed peep sight mounted to the top of the ACOG if I needed to.
Stormer_117
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Fair enough, I should've specified it in the OP, my bad.
Quickly acquiring a target at close range with a 1-x scope just takes some practice. Failing that, run a red dot at a 45 degree angle. I recall an interview with Larry Vickers where he described using only a 1-4x while with his old unit.
(Just a follow up, not calling you out)
"CQB ranges" like you'd ever be let near one in the first place -
Rather than hate your existence any further, I will suggest that you stop searching on Google for various retarded shit to ask the people who belong here.
Then I want you to stand up and look around the room you are physically in this very moment.
Hopefully youre alone.
Envision a target entering through an adjacent room and you, armed with a rifle (sadly), raising said rifle undoubtedly with your elbows protruding in an awkward stance / poor shouldering, cheekweld, and trigger control then engaging said target.
You're so fucking close to the target that it doesn't matter if you have an EOTech, an ACOG or a Sims Game green arrow ruby icon / I'm thinking Arby's hat.
You will hit the target. Even you.
Nobody really HATES EOTech. What government uses and purchases personally are two different line items. Nobody stops the war to debate optics in the real world.
Which would I prefer? A close air strike.
You're a weird little shit and I don't like you at all - but the best thing you can personally purchase for either a 5.56 or 7.62 battle rifle is undoubtedly (my opinion) an Elcan quick-adjustable 1x/4x with crystal clear picture, perfect sights with or without battery illumination, fantastic eye relief for fast target acquisition and out of this world reliability.
Buy me one and I'll show you which end of the rifle it goes on.
TLDR20
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Man...
I would never be given that option. No one is really. That is why we have things like magnifiers or doctor sites. I had an eotech on my team gun, served me just fine. I later had an Elcan, because it does both just fine. What do I know though. I've never been on a CQB range, wtf that is...
This response was meant for the double tap thread but it got locked before I could respond to why you can't neglect the head shot. I figured I'd post it here since it seems that while the show may have canceled, the same cast of characters are appearing here in this thread.
There is a reason we shoot people in the face. A shooter may not be able to quickly eliminate a threat that is wearing body armor or hopped up on adrenaline or drugs. I've seen a guy get up and run after being hit in the abdomen with a 50 caliber raufoss round. Granted his kids still collected on his Taliban SGLI policy but it goes to show you that that a shot to the center of mass doesn't always stop your opponent. Even if that round is an explosive, incendiary, half inch wide miracle bullet filled with death magic.
This is the concept behind the failure to stop drill. I've also heard it called the Mozambique drill. The face may also be the only exposed target if your adversary is firing at you from behind cover.
We haven't had to deal with a lot of body armor equipped combatants in Iraq and Afghanistan. I've run into a few but it's far from common. Israel had a very different experience in the 2006 Lebanon war however. Hezbollah fighters were very well equipped with body armor, night vision devices, and modern communications systems. You can expect that near peer competitors will field well equipped and armored soldiers. If some clown doesn't want to go down, then feel free to put two in his chest and 28 to the face.
There is a reason we shoot people in the face. A shooter may not be able to quickly eliminate a threat that is wearing body armor or hopped up on adrenaline or drugs. I've seen a guy get up and run after being hit in the abdomen with a 50 caliber raufoss round. Granted his kids still collected on his Taliban SGLI policy but it goes to show you that that a shot to the center of mass doesn't always stop your opponent. Even if that round is an explosive, incendiary, half inch wide miracle bullet filled with death magic.
This is the concept behind the failure to stop drill. I've also heard it called the Mozambique drill. The face may also be the only exposed target if your adversary is firing at you from behind cover.
We haven't had to deal with a lot of body armor equipped combatants in Iraq and Afghanistan. I've run into a few but it's far from common. Israel had a very different experience in the 2006 Lebanon war however. Hezbollah fighters were very well equipped with body armor, night vision devices, and modern communications systems. You can expect that near peer competitors will field well equipped and armored soldiers. If some clown doesn't want to go down, then feel free to put two in his chest and 28 to the face.
Well put. I took to the notion that the poster is placing himself in a domestic scenario and/or functioning within the constraints of his implied shooting ability.
I've never experienced insurgents wearing more than a crappy chest rig - you make a sound point on future adversaries. Couple this with the stark differences in technology and I'm not even sure what this type of warfare would look like anymore.
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Most assuredly. When I was in the market for an optic years ago I looked at Aimpoints and Eotechs with the 3x magnifier. Since I'm setting up that AR for three-gun matches I wanted something with a bit of magnification. After a ton of research and looking at manufacturer's websites, I settled on this, but their older 1-4 model with the same reticle. I also noticed Trijicon, among others, made scopes with large center reticles/ dots.
SWFA SS HD 1-6x24 Tactical 30mm Riflescope
I haven't shot in over a year, but playing with the scope and my wife's Aimpoint, I thought the learning curve for the Aimpoint was significantly less (no surprise), but there was nothing wrong with the scope if you practiced. Of course, this is a flat one-way range, with no armor, helmet or NVG's, so a military user will probably have different experiences.
belt fed bukakke facials always make for great highlight clips.
That, and if fifty dont work, forty usually will...
policemedic
Verified SWAT
I've used both Aimpoints and Eotechs (with and without flip-away magnifiers) in military and LE contexts. The team currently issues Aimpoints and a Surefire light/laser. I'm fine with that whether I'm clearing rooms or on a city street.
In short, it's the shooter and not the gun/optic--which I believe is what @TLDR20 was saying as well.
In short, it's the shooter and not the gun/optic--which I believe is what @TLDR20 was saying as well.
I prefer the aimpoints to eotechs personally.
The fact that Eotech CONCEALED all this...
-Zero shifts of up to 12 MOA at 32 F, and up to 20 MOA at 5 degrees F, despite EoTech’s claims that the HWS could operate in temperatures from -40F to 140F. big deal! like huge...
-Severe parallax error as the temperature approached 32 F.
-Dimming of reticle and other problems caused by exposure to humidity, though the optic was represented to be able to operate at 95% humidity indefinitely without problems.
-Some optics which experienced this zero shift were unable to ever re-gain a consistent zero afterwards. totally fucking unacceptable
That list is enough to not get one. But hey, you are a canadian milsimmer or whatever you are. You don't even live in a country where temperature swings at a day on the range can vary by 50 degrees....o wait.
I don't even think they fixed the problem, and since they lied about it before, I am not apt to accept them saying it is fixed.
The fact that Eotech CONCEALED all this...
-Zero shifts of up to 12 MOA at 32 F, and up to 20 MOA at 5 degrees F, despite EoTech’s claims that the HWS could operate in temperatures from -40F to 140F. big deal! like huge...
-Severe parallax error as the temperature approached 32 F.
-Dimming of reticle and other problems caused by exposure to humidity, though the optic was represented to be able to operate at 95% humidity indefinitely without problems.
-Some optics which experienced this zero shift were unable to ever re-gain a consistent zero afterwards. totally fucking unacceptable
That list is enough to not get one. But hey, you are a canadian milsimmer or whatever you are. You don't even live in a country where temperature swings at a day on the range can vary by 50 degrees....o wait.
I don't even think they fixed the problem, and since they lied about it before, I am not apt to accept them saying it is fixed.
Devildoc
Verified Military
Now that's a great word, more genteel than "booger-eaters."
I was issued an Aimpoint, and an EOTech. I prefer the Aimpoint, but never had an issue with the EOTech. I will shoot with a toilet paper roll for an optic if it works.
Yup. Clear the room? Hey sir, how about I just put a 114 through the window, or a 38 on delay fuse through the roof? Ok, cool. I'll let you know when we're weapons away so your guys can get the GoPros out.
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