Israel

[Scotth]

The rocket attack cause relatively little if any damage. The rocket for most part are home made POS. The iron dome deals with those rockets for the most part.

You want to stop the rockets? First step is stop taking Palestinian lands to build new settlements would be a good start.

Second step would be to offer the Palinestian people a better option then Hamas offers. Hamas is picking up the trash, they are offering housing and medical clinic and other social service to the people. Hamas official actually show up for work when they are employed by the government.

Stop funding social strife by arming and funding Fatah to try and cause internal strife.

Don't blow up the only power station the Palestine's have every time your pissed off.

Hamas and other have sabotaged the future because their is no downside to it because Israel doesn't offer anything better.

When Northwest and Delta merged the Northwest flight attendant were union and Delta's flight attendant weren't. The Northwest flight attendant were allowed to stay union but voted the union out because they thought Delta offered a better option.

After a half century of offering only the stick and no carrot, maybe it's time to try another option if you want to marginalize Hamas.

 

[Ranger Psych]

Every time they offer the carrot, its fuck israel.

Fuck hamas, fuck gaza, and fuck all the idiots supporting them and the 30 some-odd countries who have pledged either in public or silently otherwise to ensure Israel ceases to exist.

 

[racing_kitty]

I'm talking about stopping them from putting the rockets in schools and homes, not stopping them from firing on Israel. Apples and oranges, Scotth, apples and oranges. You can't tell me that a little bit of NIMBYism isn't possible anywhere outside of the United States.

Second of all, as far as Palestinian lands go, back when this site hosted a blog, I put up a pretty lengthy post (I wish I had saved it) in which I went over the the ethnic "chicken and the egg" issue that is "Palestinian land." To sum it up, Palestine is a Roman construct, and the Hebrews and Palestinians are both of Semitic descent (although the modern Palestinian is a result of Arabization). However, the Hebrew blood line predates the Palestinian bloodline, especially considering the Hebrews killed off the Phonecians and settled Canaan. The Philistines came down from Crete sometime around 1100 BCE, were referred to as the Sea People by the ancient Egyptians, and never left. So, while the modern Palestinians can say that they have been there since 1100 BCE, Hebrews have got them beat by several hundred years, near total extermination of their bloodline by the Romans notwithstanding. So, either they learn to share, or the Palestinians go back to Arabia and Crete, Hebrews go back to where they came from before Egypt, and you nuke the fucking place from orbit.

Your call, but ancient history says the Hebrew chicken came before the Palestinian egg.

 

[AWP]

This post.

Something I think lost in the general shuffle and discourse is "near history." From Day One Israel's Arab neighbors openly attacked the state or trained and funded terrorists who targeted civilians. Israel didn't START going after civilians, that was a response to unending waves of terror in her communities.

Look at the US since 9/11. I think a fair amount of "militarization" has occurred in our society after 13 years of war. Imagine being in a state of war since 1948. People think about the Six Day or Yom Kippur Wars, maybe they think of Lebanon in the 80's, but a metric ton of "low intensity conflict" has existed since the UN established the state. Agree with their methods or not, but people need to at least consider that they have fought small and large conflicts nearly every day for over 60 YEARS. 3 generations born into that and people act like the national psyche will turn around because of a peace accord or a few speeches? On a personal level, do the same thing every day for a year and see how hard it is to break that habit. We're talking at least three generations BORN into that system.

The US officially ended segregation in 1964. News flash, it isn't exactly dead in certain communities, black or white.

How long have we known AIDS wasn't just for gay people? You think that myth doesn't have legs in this day and age?

Perception is reality and we're talking about 6+ DECADES perceiving their country was in peril...and this doesn't even address the shock from 1973. That perception is also backed by thousands and thousands of dead civilians at the hands of Arab and Arab-backed terrorists.

If I spent my entire life living in someone's objective I'd probably be a tad militant.

Peace plans which don't consider history are doomed to fail.

 

[CQB]

The usual clutch of Arab States condemn Israel whenever this type of thing blows up, this time....





*crickets*

 

[Gunz]

The media is biased against Israel and sympathetic to her enemies. It influences all the people outside the Middle East who otherwise wouldn't give a shit about the Arab/Israeli conflict. Great thing about the Israelis is they don't give a fuck what the media says. Their gonna do what they have to do.

 

[Gunz]

Every time they offer the carrot, its fuck israel.

Fuck hamas, fuck gaza, and fuck all the idiots supporting them and the 30 some-odd countries who have pledged either in public or silently otherwise to ensure Israel ceases to exist.

I should delete the 2 or 3 posts I made on this thread...because I've used about 400 words to say exactly this^^^^

 

[CQB]

So it's down to this, charging Israel with war crime, though Palestine isn't a UN signatory.

But that's not a given. To process the complaint, the Hague-based court must first rule if it has jurisdiction in the Palestinian Authority. The territory isn't a U.N. member but became an observer in 2012, a status the ICC chief prosecutor said was required for Palestinians to sign up to the court.

Some experts don't expect the ICC to recognize the Palestinian proceedings.

"This is more of a symbolic thing. I'd be surprised if The Hague accepts the complaint. I can't see the ICC summoning up the Israeli leaders for evidence," said Mattia Toaldo, policy fellow at the European Council on Foreign Relations.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/gaza-officials-accuse-israel-war-crimes-icc-24712658

 

[pardus]

Israel fucked up big time when they didn't ethnically cleanse Gaza and the West Bank when they first took possession.

IMO Israel should invade Gaza and do just that now.

 

[BloodStripe]

http://news.yahoo.com/egypt-army-destroys-13-more-gaza-tunnels-093712884.html

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/fe...-add-economic-crisis-2014330144848664175.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...y-destroyed-retribution-militant-attacks.html

So Egypt destroy's Gaza tunnels and nobody bats an eye, but Israel destroy's some and everyone get's their panties all wadded up. I really wish those who support a Palestinian state would actually have a clue as to what is going on. That is not to say all Palestinian's are evil, but they are guilty by association. Either they help remove Hamas (and any other terrorist organization) or they are guilty for harboring them. That is why we attacked the Taliban and Iraq. If you read the Iraq War Resolution it strictly says "for harboring or aiding international terrorist organizations).

 

[Marauder06]

Not all veterans support Israel?

http://www.havokjournal.com/world/notallveterans-not-all-veterans-support-israel

 

[pardus]

To me the choice is clear, you either support Israel or you support genocide of the Jews.

That is not to say that every single thing Israel does is OK, but that is the bottom line.

 

[Ranger Psych]

Nah. I personally feel close but not exactly the same as mentioned in the link Marauder threw up. I'm significantly more pro-israel than that account, but everything he did mention also pisses me off. Especially Isralie espionage. Considering we'll either give, or sell, everything we make militarily as well as domestically to them, there's no fucking need for that.

 

[Scotth]

To me the choice is clear, you either support Israel or you support genocide of the Jews.

By what definition is the Jewish state in even remotely in danger? They're a regional super power. It's a much different world then it was in '67.

Like you I don't think Israel is excused for all of their actions nor do I think Hamas is anywhere near innocent as well.

Does anyone think a policy of "mowing the grass" is a long term solution either?

I was certainly pro-Israel prior to going to school. I lived in apartment style dorms my first year in college and lived with a Palestinian in an enjoining apartment and he humanize the conflict for me. I wasn't best buddies with the guy but we talked occasionally. I asked him why they hated Americans. He told me they didn't hate American's they hated American policy. I could understand that point and my views changed that day.

 

[AWP]

Something the "civilized" West has lost sight of is that in many parts of the world carrot/ stick relationships only work because you're willing to use a big stick. People everywhere understand the carrot, but in the West the carrot is our first option. Africa, the ME, parts of Asia don't respect your carrot unless the stick is there and used to great effect. Otherwise your carrot isn't humanitarian, it is a weakness.

If Israel stops now and produces a carrot Hamas and the rest learn that you provoke a war, hang on while the press chirps and squirms and attacks Israel, absorb some losses, and then gain concessions. (Sound familiar?) Israel shouldobliterate Hamas and then return with a juicy carrot. Gaza/ Hamas/ the Palestinians need to know the carrot has a step price and they can resolve this like adults or go on Jew-hating and take a stick upside their heads.

Or they'll just hang on until the press saves Hamas. One other thing we like in the West: deadlines.

 

[DA SWO]

By what definition is the Jewish state in even remotely in danger? They're a regional super power. It's a much different world then it was in '67.

Like you I don't think Israel is excused for all of their actions nor do I think Hamas is anywhere near innocent as well.

Does anyone think a policy of "mowing the grass" is a long term solution either?

I was certainly pro-Israel prior to going to school. I lived in apartment style dorms my first year in college and lived with a Palestinian in an enjoining apartment and he humanize the conflict for me. I wasn't best buddies with the guy but we talked occasionally. I asked him why they hated Americans. He told me they didn't hate American's they hated American policy. I could understand that point and my views changed that day.

So celebrating the deaths of 3000+ Americans was their way of loving us?
How about being thankful for the Billions we've sent them?

I would have loved to chat with your buddy.

BTW- How'd he pay for school?

 

[Scotth]

So celebrating the deaths of 3000+ Americans was their way of loving us?
How about being thankful for the Billions we've sent them?

I would have loved to chat with your buddy.

BTW- How'd he pay for school?

Last time I checked their wasn't 8-9 Palestinian's on the planes that day but their where people from our supposed allied nations that we gave those billions to on those planes.

You can't paint everyone with the same brush.

His parents paid for his school.

I went to school with him in the late 80's and early 90's. Did he shed a tear on 9/11, probably not.

 

[pardus]

By what definition is the Jewish state in even remotely in danger? They're a regional super power. It's a much different world then it was in '67.

Like you I don't think Israel is excused for all of their actions nor do I think Hamas is anywhere near innocent as well.

Does anyone think a policy of "mowing the grass" is a long term solution either?

I was certainly pro-Israel prior to going to school. I lived in apartment style dorms my first year in college and lived with a Palestinian in an enjoining apartment and he humanize the conflict for me. I wasn't best buddies with the guy but we talked occasionally. I asked him why they hated Americans. He told me they didn't hate American's they hated American policy. I could understand that point and my views changed that day.

I know you're a smart guy so I'm going to assume you are trying to bait me rather than think you are ignorant to the fact that the countries surrounding Israel have standing policies that state the the destruction of Israel is state policy.

Oh and maybe the constant rocket attacks might be a little bit of a threat, but hey that's not dangerous right?

 

[pardus]

Did he shed a tear on 9/11, probably not.

Well I for one am certainly glad you chose a good role model to change your opinion regarding the existence of Israel.

 

[Scotth]

I know you're a smart guy so I'm going to assume you are trying to bait me rather than think you are ignorant to the fact that the countries surrounding Israel have standing policies that state the the destruction of Israel is state policy.

Oh and maybe the constant rocket attacks might be a little bit of a threat, but hey that's not dangerous right?

So what's worse? Rhetoric or action.

So a country that has a policy of "mowing the lawn" on the region that they control totally. A country that has attacked other sovereign countries in their region or people talking shit while getting their asses kicked?

None of that criticism justify Hamas but it also doesn't excuse Israel as well.