Law school or 18x

[DA SWO]

Don't forget sitting for and passing the bar exam while simultaneously trying to be Guard is a ball of fun. One of my classmates at a top 20 law school sat for the CA bar in 2019, but his Guard unit wouldn't let him get out of AT. He basically had to write off passing the test and the $900 administrative fee since he got out of drill the weekend before the CA bar. Wouldn't he have to be barred in the states with the NG SF units as well to avoid having to travel there every month for drill? (My own ignorance here.) Could be difficult depending on the circumstances.

I know USERRA will ostensibly help his case, but I'm not sure you'll find very many guardsmen who have jobs at bigger private firms because they oftentimes can't bill enough hours while juggling those responsibilities, or the firms will not hire reservists or guardsmen in the first place to preclude that issue. Working with a government entity such as a District Attorney may allow him more flexibility while being a lawyer but even so, there's a lot of hoops to jump through and unless he can get the GI bill to pay for his law school, it seems like a lot of debt to take on to just check a box if he's not intent on practicing law long term.

That's just my $.02.

Bold face part, no

 

[seneca]

@seneca, as an outsider to those paths, it sounds like you are trying to cram three careers into one. I'll grant that some combination of the two is possible. Otherwise, time isn't on your side.

I wish you luck, but I think you're trying to go "a bridge too far."

Great movie, but yeah I'm realizing its not a great life plan. If I am reading the underlining go the responses it sounds like going SF and any incorporation of law before FBI involves me busting my balls for years. Law school is beginning to certainly appear to be my best route.

 

[ThunderHorse]

Hi, this is my first post and I am looking for mainly general advice about two different routes I am looking at. I am applying to law schools and plan to submit my application packets later this month. My goal with law school is to become an Assistant US Attorney and eventually joint the FBI. I will be attending a top 50 law school on some sort of partial scholarship I expect, based on my scores and GPA. The end goal though is FBI. But recently I have been reconsidering law School because I am not sure that I want to read more books for 3 more years (I am already a humanities student)

Thus, the option I have been flouting around with is enlisting as 18x and going SF with the end goal of retiring from the Army after 10-14 years and join the FBI. I know law is probably not in the realm of most people here, but does anyone have thoughts about which route you would recommend? From what I have read, if I were to commission then I would have to wait a couple years before I can try out for SF and I run the chance of missing my opportunity. That seems too risky since the whole point of me joining is to make my way to the FBI as a former SF.

Gosh this is a wild ride. All of those things are completely different. As another poster said the FBI likes attorneys and accountants in recruiting, but I also know quite a few agents that are neither and also have no .mil background. Some have been law enforcement before and some just got through the recruitment process. So joining the FBI isn't about one thing or the other, but it may help.

I live with an attorney, I also went to law school for a specialty program, but don't have a JD. I would tell you that if you are going to go to law school and become an Assistant US Attorney (this is very competitive and hard to do right out of law school, almost as hard as getting Federal Clerkships) then you should punt on the idea of the FBI thing. I'm being serious.

Now if you went to Law School and decided to apply for the FBI, that needs to be your focus.

Now let's get to 18 Series stuff, guessing you're in college right now...but are thinking of not going to Law School. Why is OCS not an option for you?

Now onto SF as a pathway to the FBI, why? This is quite similar to becoming an AUSA and then wanting to leave that and join the FBI. Two extremely different things.

Like someone else said you seem to be trying to do everything and you're probably 21 to 22. Pick and commit to one of paths is my advice.

Also, if you do choose to attend Law School (It's three years of hard learning) you may choose to do something completely different, like representing vulnerable adults.

 

[Kraut783]

IIRC correctly, you can not be in the Guard as an FBI SA.

Yes, you CAN be in the NG or Reserve and be a FBI SA. I work with several FBI SA's who are either in the NG or Reserves. The policy changed about 10ish years ago.

 

[JedisonsDad]

Honest question here. Not going to judge you based off your answer, but how you answer helps determine paths towards goals.

If you’re going for titles, like Dr. Astronaut SEAL Jonny Kim (not saying Kim is chasing titles), it’s possible to check all your boxes, but it won’t be quick or easy, and probably not rewarding if you’re always looking at your current situation as a road block to your next achievement.

If you’re looking for financial stability/retirement/lots of money, those all have different paths. Mil/FBI being the stability, lawyer potentially being the money as long as you don’t turn out like a shady ambulance chaser.

If you’re looking for job satisfaction, that’s for you to decide what makes you happy.

Let’s say something happens, whether that’s financially, legally, physically, or mentally, and you aren’t able to move past the situation you happen to be in. Would you be happy where you are? Or will you always be chasing your white whale?

 

[AWP]

Don't forget sitting for and passing the bar exam while simultaneously trying to be Guard is a ball of fun. One of my classmates at a top 20 law school sat for the CA bar in 2019, but his Guard unit wouldn't let him get out of AT. He basically had to write off passing the test and the $900 administrative fee since he got out of drill the weekend before the CA bar. Wouldn't he have to be barred in the states with the NG SF units as well to avoid having to travel there every month for drill? (My own ignorance here.) Could be difficult depending on the circumstances.

I know USERRA will ostensibly help his case, but I'm not sure you'll find very many guardsmen who have jobs at bigger private firms because they oftentimes can't bill enough hours while juggling those responsibilities, or the firms will not hire reservists or guardsmen in the first place to preclude that issue. Working with a government entity such as a District Attorney may allow him more flexibility while being a lawyer but even so, there's a lot of hoops to jump through and unless he can get the GI bill to pay for his law school, it seems like a lot of debt to take on to just check a box if he's not intent on practicing law long term.

That's just my $.02.

A couple of hits here in support of your post:
- In the 90's, when deployment opportunities didn't exist, we had 2 guys go to law school, 2 to Physician's Assistant, and a couple of Masters level engineering programs. I think one of the PA students stayed in the Guard, the rest retired or ETS'ed due to the time involved in those programs. The one who stayed in went on a non-deployable status for the duration of his program. Team guy, 18D, and they buried him somewhere so he could complete the program without hurting his team. He went to drill and that was it.
- Employers are SUPPOSED to be agnostic when it comes to hiring/ retaining Guard and Reserve. Yeah, nah, it doesn't work like that in the real world. HR departments exist to protect companies and they have ways of legal discrimination.
- We had two practicing lawyers including our BN CDR. Both had their own firms. You'd think working for the State would confer some protection, but see my post above. There are legal ways to discriminate against Guard/ Reserve.

 

[seneca]

Honest question here. Not going to judge you based off your answer, but how you answer helps determine paths towards goals.

If you’re going for titles, like Dr. Astronaut SEAL Jonny Kim (not saying Kim is chasing titles), it’s possible to check all your boxes, but it won’t be quick or easy, and probably not rewarding if you’re always looking at your current situation as a road block to your next achievement.

If you’re looking for financial stability/retirement/lots of money, those all have different paths. Mil/FBI being the stability, lawyer potentially being the money as long as you don’t turn out like a shady ambulance chaser.

If you’re looking for job satisfaction, that’s for you to decide what makes you happy.

Let’s say something happens, whether that’s financially, legally, physically, or mentally, and you aren’t able to move past the situation you happen to be in. Would you be happy where you are? Or will you always be chasing your white whale?

I do not care about titles. I am looking for job satisfaction, which hopefully provides some financial security. Yeah that's good for me to think about.

 

[BloodStripe]

If you like legal, why not pursue a law degree while being an infantryman? It's much less demanding on your schedule than being in the 18 series and you'll still get the opportunity to slay bodies.

 

[DA SWO]

If you like legal, why not pursue a law degree while being an infantryman? It's much less demanding on your schedule than being in the 18 series and you'll still get the opportunity to slay bodies.

Full-time law school is a bitch for the 1st year and a half.
Survivors may relax a little during their last year, but they still have internships, etc, to accomplish.
EDRE's, deployments and other Army buffonery will cut into his time.

 

[Archangel27]

If you like legal, why not pursue a law degree while being an infantryman? It's much less demanding on your schedule than being in the 18 series and you'll still get the opportunity to slay bodies.

Good luck doing that. I got absolutely wrecked during my first year of law school even without other things to worry about, let alone infantry commitments.

Your 1L grades matter a lot in terms of internships, and as you move up, your commitments move beyond classes and can include things like moot court, law review, or other extern/internships during the school year. Unless he's okay with accepting he'll be very disadvantaged in dealing with Army stuff, especially when classes are graded on a curve in law school, it's ill-advised.

 

[BloodStripe]

Full-time law school is a bitch for the 1st year and a half.
Survivors may relax a little during their last year, but they still have internships, etc, to accomplish.
EDRE's, deployments and other Army buffonery will cut into his time.

When I was in the Marine Corps Reserves it was strictly one weekend a month/2 weeks a year type situation outside of deployments to Iraq, of which there are very little Reserves doing 7 month deployments. If he went enlisted he would be at most an E4 (Army) or an E3 (Marines). They have very little responsibilities outside of those drill weekends.

I've never been to law school but I've gone the Executive MBA route and know that juggling school and other life responsibilities are tough but not impossible.

 

[ThunderHorse]

Good luck doing that. I got absolutely wrecked during my first year of law school even without other things to worry about, let alone infantry commitments.

Your 1L grades matter a lot in terms of internships, and as you move up, your commitments move beyond classes and can include things like moot court, law review, or other extern/internships during the school year. Unless he's okay with accepting he'll be very disadvantaged in dealing with Army stuff, especially when classes are graded on a curve in law school, it's ill-advised.

I went through my Law Program with a reservist HUMINT Sergeant First Class. He liked the specialized program so much he wanted more torture and is a 1L now.

 

[AlphaVictor]

Edit: failed attempt at replying to an above post.

Mods please delete if possible

 

[AlphaVictor]

IIRC correctly, you can not be in the Guard as an FBI SA.

Edit pt 2: Kraut beat me to it. No need to beat a dead horse. Apologies, as my reading abilities seem to degrade immensely on my mobile phone. I'll go scurry off and smoke myself.