MARSOC: CONQUERING THE MISSION, FAILING THE MEN

ReubenB

ReubenB

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Unfortunately the healthy, expected, productive growing pains experienced by MARSOC are accompanied by a multitude of other significant, more toxic institutional failures, ones that compromise the very livelihood of the unit and its future success. Problems that, if left unchecked, will present a stifling obstacle to the evolution of the organization, and ultimately threaten to deteriorate the progress already made. The majority of these issues can be generally attributed to major systemic failures in staffing and leadership at the regimental level and above. To thoroughly understand the context of this problem and what caused it, we must observe the organizational culture of the Marine Corps as whole, and comprehend how it applies to the existing structure of MARSOC. ​

Interesting article I came across regarding MARSOC. From an outsider looking in I honestly don't know how you guys do it.

FULL ARTICLE HERE.
 
I thought this was an incredible article. Well put and unfortunately no one is going to do anything about it.
 
Yeah I was really shocked that this is going on in MARSOC. I'm not SOF but I remembered when MARSOC was standing up and just thinking, "They're going to stand on the shoulders of giants (Rangers, SF, JTAC, SEAL) and take the SOF game to another level". Sad to hear that it's own destruction is coming from within.
 
MOTOMETO said:
I used to think MARSOC would be impervious to this bullshit that plagues the rest of the combat arms of the Corps.
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LOL I never thought that. I always thought that the Marine Corps would be the undoing of MARSOC. Any CSOs disagree with me???? For every 2 steps a CSO makes forward, some first shirt, non ITC/A&S/BRC field grade officer or SgtMaj will take at least one step backwards. Or a dozen.
 
That was...painful to read as a non-Marine.

The current regimental sergeant major of MARSOC, for example, is a 27-year motor transport Marine, whose last assignment was - you guessed it - battalion sergeant major of 3rd Recruit Training Battalion, MCRD San Diego. I’ll say that again; the regimental sergeant major of MARSOC holds the MOS of Motor Transport Mechanic. This is the guy sitting on the selection board at the end of A&S deciding who’s fit to become an operator. This is the guy attending joint staff briefings, senior SOF leadership symposiums, liaising with key personnel within SOCCENT, JSOC, etc, sitting across the table from Army E-9s with decades of ODA time, NSW master chiefs, etc. Making policy. Influencing critical decisions. Representing MARSOC.
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How could it get worse than that? Yet the article did. I almost picture Sean Bean's character in Ronin...
 
Teufel said:
LOL I never thought that. I always thought that the Marine Corps would be the undoing of MARSOC. Any CSOs disagree with me???? For every 2 steps a CSO makes forward, some first shirt, non ITC/A&S/BRC field grade officer or SgtMaj will take at least one step backwards. Or a dozen.
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Isn't that why most guys even go the MARSOC path (or any other SOF unit)? To get away from the higher ups that make your job shittier than it needs to be. At least most of the guys that I know ran towards greener pastures for that sole reason. It never made sense to me to put a higher up from a non combat MOS into a combatant one. Especially Recon and MARSOC.
 
MOTOMETO said:
Isn't that why most guys even go the MARSOC path (or any other SOF unit)? To get away from the higher ups that make your job shittier than it needs to be. At least most of the guys that I know ran towards greener pastures for that sole reason. It never made sense to me to put a higher up from a non combat MOS into a combatant one. Especially Recon and MARSOC.
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Guess what. The majority of MARSOC's higher HQ has never been around SOF or recon. The MARSOC SgtMaj is a Motor T Marine for God's sake.
 
goon175 said:
Wow.

If the article itself wasn't enough, just look at the comments...
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I was about to say the same thing. Looking through the comments I was expecting to read lots of "YEAH!...and you know what else???" type responses (there were a few), but most comments were as well thought out and well written as the original post. Most impactful was the very real tone in the responses of "someone exposed the unclothed emperor, thank god".
 
I'm glad to say that my battalion CO is a prior Force bubba. Maybe there will be more of this to come higher in the command.
 
I wasn't surprised when reading the article. Most Marines have a certain mindset that is forged during that initial training that becomes hard for the individual to break free of, especially when it comes to 1stSgts and SgtMajs that were not combat arms of some type as an E-7 and below. I may not have been SOF but I was a combat advisor that filled a similar mission and I don't know how many times I had to tell the same 1stSgt to leave my guys alone and let us do our fucking job. He was worried too much about appearance and not about fostering relationships with the Iraqis. He wanted to tag along on a raid and see what we did. He didn't get to go. Most commanders don't understand MARSOC, Scout Snipers, HUMINT and Recon. Most also don't know how to employ those types of assets when they are attached to them because they don't take the time to try to understand. Just my $.02 from the stuff I witnessed.
 
digrar said:
How does this every Marine a Rifleman falicy continue, especially in an organisation so Infantry centric as the USMC?
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So Infantry types can inflate their "warrior" image by telling everyone they are a Marine, and that makes them a Rifleman.

Sad, because I know Marines in support skills who are outstanding in their skills, guys and gals who blow their AF/Navy Counterparts away in all categories.
 
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SOWT said:
No Infantry types can inflate their "warrior" image by telling everyone they are a Marine, and that makes them a Rifleman.

Sad, because I know Marines in support skills who are outstanding in their skills, guys and gals who blow their AF/Navy Counterparts away in all categories.
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I will say this. It's hard to motivate a truck driver to drive his truck. It's a lot easier to motivate a Marine who sees himself as a provisional rifleman who happens to be a truck driver. It may seem like semantics but it works.
 
You always hear the first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem. Like the article stated, the Commandant of the time didn't want a Special Forces section of the Marine Corps. Why? Well, every Marine is a rifleman, right? And if the Marine Corps is one of the worlds most elite fighting forces and every Marine is a rifleman then every Marine should be on par with any special operator, right?

In a perfect world where everything works the way it's intended to, maybe. But here in the real world where the rest of us live that is simply not the case. The Marine Corps is far too proud to ever admit that however. The Marine Corps has convinced itself that it's senior leaders are SOF capable despite their primary MOS. Thus the water purification specialist "water dog" 1st sergeant finds himself the senior enlisted man in of an infantry company or recon company or what have you.

I'm no CSO (not YET anyway), but this is what I've seen elsewhere throughout the Marine Corps. Just my 2 cents. It breaks my heart that this problem is allowed to persist, but I don't see it changing anytime soon even though it's an obvious problem to many.
 

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