Navy submarine trades nukes for SEALs

KBar666

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Source: SunJournal.com
Capt. Andy Hale has just worked out and is still in a sweaty T-shirt and shorts as he stands in the battle command center. He is watching a flat screen display that shows what's happening outside on the bow and the aft.

His billion-dollar submarine - the U.S. Navy's newest twist on underwater warfare - is hovering just below the surface off the Pacific island of Guam as a submersible disappears into the dark waters, carrying a team of commandos.

The Ohio is the first of a new class of submarine created in a conversion of 1970s vessels by trading nuclear-tipped ICBMs for conventional cruise missiles and a contingent of commandos ready to be launched onto virtually any shore through rejiggered missile tubes - against conventional forces or terrorists.

The sub's cruise across the Pacific comes as China builds its submarine fleet into the region's largest as part of the bulking up of its military. The voyage is the Ohio's first deployment since the makeover, and Hale is in the odd position of showing the ship off.

It's odd because the sub is all about stealth.

Hale can't talk about where the ship is going. The back of the ship, where the nuclear power plant is located, is off limits. The leader of the SEAL commando contingent aboard can't be named and the commandos themselves can't be photographed in any way that shows their faces.

But, over the next few months, the Ohio will be making a very public statement, training intensively in some of the world's most crowded and contested waters and joining in exercises with America's Asian allies. Instead of hiding them, the Ohio will be showcasing its abilities to elude detection and operate too deeply and quickly to be tracked. It made its first stop last week in Busan, South Korea, for joint exercises.

Then it will likely do what it does best - vanish.

"Submarines are the original stealth platform," Hale told The Associated Press, the only media allowed on board. "Submarine forces have always viewed the Pacific as a very important strategic area ... it's certainly grown in importance in the last 10 years."

Just about every country with a coastline in Asia wants or has subs.

China, Japan, Australia, India, Malaysia, Pakistan, Indonesia, Singapore, Bangladesh and South and North Korea either now have or are planning to acquire them.

Most don't pose much of a threat to the more advanced American fleet. But that is changing.

While Russia continues to be a factor, China now has the biggest submarine fleet in the region, with nearly 60. The U.S. has upped its presence in the Pacific, and now has more ships - and more subs - in this part of the world than in the Atlantic.

But they are still outnumbered.

"There are many challenges in the Pacific," Hale said. "China is certainly one of them, but it is not the only one."

China's subs are mainly diesel-powered, meaning they must come up for air more frequently than U.S. nuclear-powered vessels, and their crews are not believed to be as well trained as American submariners, who spend several months at a time at sea.

China's fleet is also highly focused on patrolling its own coastal waters and on dealing with potential hostilities over Taiwan, rather than with "projecting force," or trying to control faraway shipping lanes.

But its the long-term goals that remain opaque.

Two years ago, a Chinese sub shocked the U.S. Navy by surfacing within torpedo range of the USS Kitty Hawk aircraft carrier near the Japanese island of Okinawa. Beijing claimed the sub was in international waters and was not "stalking" the carrier, which was taking part in a naval exercise.

The growing rivalry was underscored in November, when Beijing refused a scheduled port call by the Kitty Hawk's battle group to Hong Kong, forcing thousands of sailors to spend Thanksgiving at sea. In January, however, China allowed a visit to the port by another U.S. Navy vessel.

Washington has repeatedly expressed concern that China is pouring money into expanding its forces. Beijing increased its military budget by nearly 18 percent to about $45 billion last year, the largest annual hike in more than a decade, and U.S. officials believe actual spending is greater.

The Chinese, meanwhile, are closely watching to see how U.S. concern translates into changes in the U.S. Navy. When the Ohio, which is based in Bangor, Wash., docked at Guam last month, China's official Xinhua news agency called the submarine a "warehouse of explosives" and a "devil of deterrence."

"If the Ohio turns west from Guam, it would need only hours to travel to the coastal waters of many Asian nations," it said. "The U.S. Navy believes the power of the cruise missile-armed nuclear submarine will be tremendous in a future war."

That is exactly what the Navy wants China and others to think, and why the Ohio is in the Pacific.

"The advanced capabilities that we have brought to this ship make it a premier front-line submarine," said the Ohio's executive officer, Lt. Commander Al Ventura. "This has taken the submarine force to a whole new level."

The Ohio has both vast firepower and the ability to deploy quickly to wherever it's needed.

It has 24 launch tubes, 15 of which have been fitted for multiple Tomahawks - more than 100 in total. That's more than were launched in the entire first Gulf War. From an offshore position in the Pacific, it could strike Pyongyang, North Korea. From the Indian Ocean, it could hit anywhere in Afghanistan.

The switch to conventional missiles is a concept borne of necessity.

Under a 1992 disarmament treaty, the U.S. Navy had to give up four of its 18 "boomers," huge submarines that have for decades served as mobile launch platforms for long-range nuclear missiles and were primary players in the Cold War game of cat-and-mouse between Washington and Moscow.

Instead of scrapping the ships, however, the Navy converted them. The nuclear weapons were replaced with conventional Tomahawk guided missiles and several of the launch tubes refitted to deploy the Navy SEALs in submersible boats.

Because of the sheer size of the sub - it's 560 feet long - it has more room for its 160-member crew and dozens of commandos than an attack submarine. While still cramped and claustrophobic, sailors have bigger beds and several places for working out, which the SEALs do constantly.

Among the SEALs, stealth remains a way of life.

In a wardroom just yards from the Tomahawk missile tubes, the head of the SEAL contingent agreed to be interviewed, but only if he wasn't identified or photographed, lest he or his family be tracked down by terrorists, for whom killing a SEAL would be a major propaganda coup.

"We go places," he said. "Let's just leave it at that."

While near Guam, the SEALs conducted operations simulating an undersea launch in their submersible and a landing to assess a fictitious terrorist threat. Guam was dubbed "Backwateria" and the terrorists called the "Al-Shakur." The names of the terrorist leaders were taken from a popular TV cartoon.

The island could just as well have been Taiwan, or the shores of North Korea.

The SEAL commander said the simulations were not aimed at any particular country.

Still, he said, it's not just idle training.

"This capability has been used before, and it will probably be used again," he said.
 
Diesel subs are harder to detect than the nuclear type. Didn't know the Chinese had so many.

Just had an image of a sub laden with SEAL's and them being launched Polaris like from underwater. :doh: I know...I'm a retard...
 
The only issue I have with things like this is...I'm a nothing, pure civi and yet here was info that I was then able to post here on a supposedly secret capability/asset.
 
The only issue I have with things like this is...I'm a nothing, pure civi and yet here was info that I was then able to post here on a supposedly secret capability/asset.


I hate to burst your bubble, but I don't think what you found at the SunJournal.com is considered secret. I'm hardly an expert, but even I know that SEALs have been deploying from subs for years, it's been on Discovery channel.:D

But more then that, if you thought you found some secret information -- why in the world would you post it out in the open? Am I missing something here?:uhh:
 
I was thinking wow. I traded my ex for a shotgun once, these guys traded nukes for some SEALs. I wonder if they are gonna trade the torpedoes for something?
 
It's turning old subs into SEAL delivery platforms. Been done before, still being done now, just that these subs are subverted to SEALs only.
 
As a taxpayer I think this is an awesome idea. It gives the SEALs a very viable platform without reinventing the wheel.

Though this is probably the wrong place to comment on filling old tubes with new seamen. :D

I know of a few hot Navy chicks, in fact I married one.
 
As a taxpayer I think this is an awesome idea. It gives the SEALs a very viable platform without reinventing the wheel.

Though this is probably the wrong place to comment on filling old tubes with new seamen. :D

I know of a few hot Navy chicks, in fact I married one.

LMAO !!!! :doh::D
 
I hate to burst your bubble, but I don't think what you found at the SunJournal.com is considered secret. I'm hardly an expert, but even I know that SEALs have been deploying from subs for years, it's been on Discovery channel.:D

But more then that, if you thought you found some secret information -- why in the world would you post it out in the open? Am I missing something here?:uhh:


Perhaps I worded that wrong.

What I meant was, while yes we all know that SEALs have been doing this for years. I was perticularly talking about this sub alone, they in the article that what the sub or SEALs on it are doing can't be talked about and yet some how here was sunjournal writing an article on it. If THIS sub is so hush-hush why allow info to written up at all.

Its kinda like that one article on how they are retooling old prob planes for CAS that was posted on here and in the article they call it some secret program and yet it was an article none the less.


I'm not saying its not a good idea or trying to negate any points made earlier all I'm saying is that if the work these guys are doing is not supposed to be advertised why advertise it.
 
What I meant was, while yes we all know that SEALs have been doing this for years. I was perticularly talking about this sub alone, they in the article that what the sub or SEALs on it are doing can't be talked about and yet some how here was sunjournal writing an article on it. If THIS sub is so hush-hush why allow info to written up at all.

The Navy has advertised this for years to be honest, right down to the subs they would convert. You get a PR boost plus you get an I/O bump: other nations will only know the sub is deployed, they won't know if SEALs are lurking or not or what the sub is up to.

The capability though was made public years ago when the Navy requested a gazillion dollars to refit the subs.
 
Perhaps I worded that wrong.

What I meant was, while yes we all know that SEALs have been doing this for years. I was perticularly talking about this sub alone, they in the article that what the sub or SEALs on it are doing can't be talked about and yet some how here was sunjournal writing an article on it. If THIS sub is so hush-hush why allow info to written up at all.

Its kinda like that one article on how they are retooling old prob planes for CAS that was posted on here and in the article they call it some secret program and yet it was an article none the less.


I'm not saying its not a good idea or trying to negate any points made earlier all I'm saying is that if the work these guys are doing is not supposed to be advertised why advertise it.

I hear ya, I'm a little thick headed sometimes...:doh: and as you can tell, I get my intel from the Discovery Channel.
 
My husband was on the USS Ohio SSBN726. Before the refit.

I would love to see the inside of one of those Ohio class. But I don't think they do those tours anymore at Bangor. He has told me some interesting stories nad also not told me stuff that was classified. :-)
 
The first conversion was performed at Mare Island Naval Shipyard and it has been closed since 1995.
Interesting note brought up on this post is the stealth of electric boats. The Nukes have to keep a main circ pump running to cool the reactor and often this is a detectable noise. Electric boats don't make much noise.
The Chinese sub surfacing opens an interesting thought. No I repeat NO sub will voluntarily surface and give away their location. I would have loved to hear the circumstance on this occasion.
Admiral to us sub Captain You are cleared to fire two mark 48 torpedoes at dummy target located at Lat and Long depth ? there are no real targets in this area that can be harmed you have permission to arm these torpedoes.
Chinese Captain emergency ballast blow surface surface surface.

It is my fantasy and I can have it my way.
 
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