Nazi-smuggling submarine found in Argentina causes international stir

RackMaster

RackMaster

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Maybe there needs to be another season of Hunting Hitler. Paging Tim Kennedy...

After a suspected World War II submarine was discovered in Argentinian waters in 2022, confidential government documents secured by British investigative journalist Laurence de Mello Simon present the possibility of a Nazi smuggling route created by the United States in partnership with Argentina, according to a May report. The sub, which was found near the beaches of Costa Bonita and Arenas Verdes, has the potential to confirm theories that Nazis escaped to Argentina toward the end of the war.
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Nazi-smuggling submarine found in Argentina causes international stir
 
TLDR20 said:
I thought it was a well known fact that many Nazis ended up in Argentina. I didn’t know it was a theory at all, orr if it was one like gravity.
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Argentinians are slightly below Pakistanis and Egyptians in the groups of people I dislike based on their countries politics.
 
Beaucoup Germans fled to Argentina after the war, some with the aid of the Catholic Church in Rome. Emile Dewoitine (A French Nazi collaborator and designer of the Dewoitine D.520) and Kurt Tank (designer of the FW-190 among others) designed and built a fighter for the Argentinians. The fighter was a bust, but it shows how much influence former Nazis carried in the country.

FMA IAe 33 Pulqui II - Wikipedia

Ratlines (World War II) - Wikipedia

A personal aside: 1994, I'm in Guatemala for 6 months courtesy of Uncle Sam. One night a couple of us went to a club in Guatemala City and there were several decent-sized groups of blonde-haired folks our ages (20-25) who clearly had some money. At some point in the evening we chatted up a group on vacation from the Netherlands, so we figured the Aryan crowd was doing the same.

We'd befriended the hotel manager or whatever he was (some manager) for the Camino Real in GC. That was our Task Force's go to hotel for a weekend R&R. Hanging out with him the subject of the blondies came up and he kind of snorted/ scoffed. He started pointing at these hilltop "villas", they were more like mansion fortresses, and said those families showed up in the late 40's and now enjoyed considerable wealth and influence in the country. He spat "they are NOT Guatemalans." I looked at my boys and we dropped it, but those weren't tourists in the club that night.

I tend to think the number of Germans that fled to Central and South America is either underestimated or they influenced countries far more than we realize.
 
Buenos Aires had a large German population in the early 20th century which became sympathetic to the Nazi Party, kind of parallel to what was going on in Argentina at the time with pro-nationalist movements. After Israel was founded the Mossad was very active there.
 
TLDR20 said:
We know high ranking Nazis arrived in South America, however the use of U-boats tell much more than Nazi's escaping capture. Argentina supposedly neutral throughout the war declared war on their 'former' pal only 41 days before the end of hostilities.. .that was convenient The use of subs proves premeditated coordination on an international level and it appears the allies were playing along, if not complicit. The spoils of war....
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TLDR20 said:
RackMaster said:
On the show? Yes but evidence Nazi's did make it to South America. It was an interesting show. Left with more questions than answers.
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We know high ranking Nazis arrived in South America, however the use of U-boats tell much more than Nazi's escaping capture. Argentina supposedly neutral throughout the war declared war on their 'former' pal only 41 days before the end of hostilities.. .that was convenient The use of subs proves premeditated coordination on an international level and it appears the allies were playing along, if not complicit. The spoils of war....
 
@Goldeneye is claiming to be the author of the article she is referencing.

She sent me a photo of her press credentials, which is as close to vetting as we will probably get for her.

Just FYI to all.
 
Goldeneye said:
Hello,
I would just like to say the Jerusalem post made a mistake on the name of the author. And others are just repeating the error as above. Its Laurence de Mello not Laurence de Mello Simon.
The original article is here : Argentine Congress and Simon Wiesenthal Center seek answers on 'Submarine' wreck
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Interesting article.

Going back to my original post, I decided to work with info rather than my memory.

German submarine U-869 - Wikipedia

U-869 conducted one World War II war patrol without success. It suffered no casualties to her crew until it was lost on 11 February 1945, with all but one of 56 crew members dead. The surviving crew member, Herbert Guschewski, was not on board, as he became ill just before the patrol. Robert Kurson chronicled the story of U-869's finding in the book Shadow Divers (2004). U-869 had been previously ordered by Karl Dönitz to move her area of operations from the North American coast to the Gibraltar area.... leading to an erroneous historical record that U-869 was sunk near Gibraltar. For many years this attack was assumed to have been her end.
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I think I posted a review of Shadow Divers. If not, it's a great book.

Eventually, the team recovered a knife inscribed with "Horenburg", a crew member's name. However, they learned at the U-boat archives that U-869 was supposedly sent to Africa, so this piece of evidence was initially disregarded. A few years later, they found part of the UZO torpedo aiming device, and a spare parts box from the motor room engraved with serial and other identifying numbers. On 31 August 1997 they concluded that the boat they found was U-869.
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What the above doesn't state is HOW they obtained that info. I won't recount it all, but 3 men died and one of the world's most experienced divers, John Chatterton, nearly died swimming through the shattered wreck to find anything to ID the sub. They spent years and tens of thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) from their own pockets to dive on and research the sub.

Now drawing from my memory, and I could well be wrong, but not all Type VII and Type IX's were the same, making SOME identification possible without going into the wreck. A shattered, broken wreck in those conditions (I'm not a diver) would have to be very, very difficult to ID without distinguishing marks or serial numbers like the above case. The 3 external things that come to mind are AA guns, if a schorkel were fitted, and any insignia painted on the conning tower. Let's be honest, what are the odds of finding enough of the above to produce an ID?

So why the secrecy? Everyone knows it is a U-boat. The conning tower could tell you that much. Type VII and Type IX's were different, even the shape changed over the war to add more AAA, but the conning tower remains German. So, how is this a "suspected" U-boat? Why hide the report? The gov't doesn't want to admit that it's a u-boat? Um, okay. Or does it know the sub's identity which quickly turns some history on it's ear?

Weird, very weird to hide the report.
 
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