New IV Tool

[ZmanTX]

Recently I had someone close to me go through a procedure. It has been a while since anyone I've known had gone through any kind of surgery. However, when I was able to talk to him/her they brought to my attention a new tool used to help with IV's (at least it was new to me). It is a portable/handheld LED light device used to locate veins on a person, honestly I was surprised and the first thing I thought of was "How valuable could this be in combat?" With combat injuries and situations IV lines are imperative to start(replenish fluids and to complete blood transfusions) and this could or could not be a potential asset.
So my question is what are your thoughts on this device? Would it be an essential tool in your med kit or do you think it would be more of hassle?

Here is a link to the site I found when I used google:

http://www.veinlite.com/

 

[policemedic]

A few things come to mind regarding this device.

The first is that IVs are not terribly important, and fluid resuscitation has caused as many problems as it has solved. People don't die from the lack of a piece of plastic in their vein. In the first phase of TC3 IVs shouldn't even be a thought; the second phase may present the opportunity but other interventions should be prioritized over starting a line.

Next, I don't need to fuss around with a device like this and I don't need to carry the weight. Difficult cannulation is easily solved by IO insertion. If the tactical situation permits, a Surefire light held against the skin offers a good view of the vasculature. MTFs and certain medics have the capability to insert peripheral IVs with ultrasound guidance if there is no emergent need to do an IO.

 

[ZmanTX]

"fluid resuscitation has caused as many problems as it has solved"

In your experiences what kind of problems have you encountered?

 

[policemedic]

Hemodilution and encouraging bleeding top the list.

 

[amlove21]

"fluid resuscitation has caused as many problems as it has solved"

In your experiences what kind of problems have you encountered?

Yea man- this has come full circle at this point. We have went from "2 large bore IV's wide open right away" to where we are now- I don't even carry a full 2 litres of fluid in my med ruck anymore.

2 500cc bags of hextend, a 500cc bag of saline, and 2 or 3 100cc bags for med admin. That's honestly about it.

Look up goal directed therapy, permissive hypotension, proper fluid challenge and fluid administration algorithms and read all that - and when that 6 months is over, come back and we can get into specifics.

 

[amlove21]

PS- if you're a medic worth half your shit and need a light for an IV- just stop. You suck.

I mean, shit- 2 sticks that are hard get you an IO in my world anyway, so get up for it.

 

[Muppet]

IMHO. A waste of money. That veni-lite contraption. No need to talk more about fluid resusc.

F.M.

 

[ZmanTX]

Yea man- this has come full circle at this point. We have went from "2 large bore IV's wide open right away" to where we are now- I don't even carry a full 2 litres of fluid in my med ruck anymore.

2 500cc bags of hextend, a 500cc bag of saline, and 2 or 3 100cc bags for med admin. That's honestly about it.

Look up goal directed therapy, permissive hypotension, proper fluid challenge and fluid administration algorithms and read all that - and when that 6 months is over, come back and we can get into specifics.

Look forward to it Am.
Thanks for the info everyone!

 

[Red Flag 1]

RF 1

 

[SpongeBob*24]

Back in my day when I was doing IV's I went straight into the HEART......PULP FICTION style!!!!!


If I'm out of IV, 1000cc of coffee right into the vein.....and I make really GOOD coffee?!?!

 

[TLDR20]

Go IO, a monkey could do it.

 

[TLDR20]

Looks like a gimmick, looking for support, and a following. Like many tech "aids", it tries to replace art and technique with " clever " new tool. I have found many viens by palpation alone. The touch also tells me just how good the vien will be for what I need to do. Veins that are sclorossed, poorly supported and rolling are not going to be identified by this new "aid". One of my residents once canulated a brachial artery, instead of a large vien, with a long central line. When asked how he managed to do that, he said it felt like a great vien, after the torniquet was applied. I expect this gadget will be equally misleadiing, in some cases. Beware the gadgets that take your feel, and fingers away from your patient; they stand in the way of the art needed in our practice.

My $.02. Back to my wee cave here in The Valley.

RF 1

That was a terrific post.

 

[Muppet]

Go IO, a monkey could do it.

I remember when we, the county got I.O.'s (EZ IO guns) about 7 years ago. I drilled EVERY sick person, cardiac arrest and trauma we had. Then I got in trouble for "spending money" because they are expensive. Now we do tibial and humeral I.O.'s for REALLY sick / trauma's only so the squad does not go broke. Have to try I.V.'s first.

F.M.

 

[policemedic]

And that's just one of the problems with the current insurance/billing reimbursement model.

 

[DoctaJ]

Recently I had someone close to me go through a procedure. It has been a while since anyone I've known had gone through any kind of surgery. However, when I was able to talk to him/her they brought to my attention a new tool used to help with IV's (at least it was new to me). It is a portable/handheld LED light device used to locate veins on a person, honestly I was surprised and the first thing I thought of was "How valuable could this be in combat?" With combat injuries and situations IV lines are imperative to start(replenish fluids and to complete blood transfusions) and this could or could not be a potential asset.
So my question is what are your thoughts on this device? Would it be an essential tool in your med kit or do you think it would be more of hassle?

Here is a link to the site I found when I used google:

http://www.veinlite.com/

I've used the VeniLite. As many have stated, it's a gimmick. Unless your pt has carrot veins, it's difficult to differentiate between the different shades. Give me some time and I'll post a picture.

PS- if you're a medic worth half your shit and need a light for an IV- just stop. You suck.

This made my night. But really, if you suck at IV's, you need to consult your local ED and try to get some IV team time. If you REALLY need to give someone fluids or meds, you can't beat the EZ IO. Also, if you have the right J Loop, the size of said loop is the right dose for local anesthetic and the treatment of ICP. Convenient.

 

[amlove21]

I dig it. Love the EZ IO. Fast, relatively painless, great piece of kit.

@DoctaJ , consider getting vetted through the site. I'd love to see a colored tag to go along with your great inputs.

 

[DoctaJ]

@DoctaJ , consider getting vetted through the site. I'd love to see a colored tag to go along with your great inputs.

I looked into it. Just need to get my 214 out. I saw you could email from AKO, but didn't find further information.

 

[DoctaJ]

So here it is. I took several pictures. The first one is without fluorescent lights on (which really need to be off for the device to be even slightly beneficial.) Next you'll see one with lights on, followed by two next to a pen light for size comparison. IMO, the Veinlite might be useful in a hospital setting, but not so much in a moving truck. I would rather feel for the vein than us this device. Further thoughts?

 

[Muppet]

You actually bought this thing bro? Waste of money IMHO. I would have bought a new pair of Danner boots or something I could really use.

F.M.

 

[DoctaJ]

You actually bought this thing bro?

F.M.

Lol, no. I didn't. Our department did. Along with a Doppler, E-Scope and a long list of other shit that doesn't work well in a truck.