Nighstalker to Ranger Advice Request

[Ape Doctor]

Before I begin, I don't want anyone to think I'm belittling my MOS or the 160th, however I feel that neither are right for me.
I recently graduated Green Platoon in July, and have been in the 160th for a little over 2 months. I'm a 92A (Automated Logistics' Specialist). I love the 160th and becoming a NightStalker, has been one of the proudest moments of my military career thus far. The 160th is a fantastic organization. My ETS date is OCT 2017, due to extension, not re-enlistment. In my heart I still feel a deep desire to be a Ranger, when I applied for the 160th, I also applied for the 75th. The 160th simply, "got back to me" first. And I was so eager to join the SOF community I eagerly jumped on the opportunity , not wanting to risk missing both. I also figured serving in the 160th would be a good way to get my feet within SOF.
I want to be a Ranger more than I can even put into words. Supporting and serving with the 160th's customers is a phenomenal experience. And I do so everyday to the best of my ability. I know very well, that my proximity to the target does not determine my importance to the mission. But being closer to the target is where I want to be. I want to be an 11B within the Ranger regiment. As a 92A coming from a regular army unit, I feel as though I'm doing the exact same thing I did before. Riding a desk and moving parts. I don't know what disillusions I may of had that made me think I'd be dong anything much different, other than who I was doing it for. And as important as I know my job is, Its not what I want.However, I volunteered for the 160th, and I know I have an obligation to fulfill.

I'm the type of person who will do any job or task I have well, and with enthusiasm. But I feel as though if I actually liked my job, I'd be a lot more of an asset to the Army.

Basically, I'm just looking for some guidance, or curious if anyone else on these forums has gone through a similar situation, before I consult my career counselor. I'd like to have at least some sort of plan in mind before I go to my career counselor just telling him my wants. Thank you in advance.

Very Respectfully
~Ape Doctor~

 

[Ranger Psych]

Biggest question: What rank are you?

The reason I say this is that if you're an NCO, and reclassing to be Infantry.... you will either flat out not get to go to RASP, or else will have to RASP with Ranger school enroute to unit or some combination therein. Either way, you'd be a cherry NCO Infantryman in a position where you'd be leading guys with way more experience doing the job than you.... which is why that generally speaking that won't probably happen. If you want to be an Infantry NCO in Ranger Regiment you need to have your Tab. Period.

If you're NOT an NCO, you need to realize also that you're going to be nerfing your military career. I know this personally due to some hiccups I had with hooah high. Long story short, I was plateaued at E-4 due to not having a Tab, even though my performance otherwise by all accounts of my superiors and coworkers was exemplary. It's just the way it is, and I just happened to be unlucky as fuck with regards to that school. At this point I don't know how quickly hooahs get to go to Ranger school once in Batt, but if you're E-4 or below, expect to be chilling as such for around a year before you get your shot. The good thing is that as an E-4 or below, you'll also actually have time to really learn how Regiment does shit, and get a deployment or two under your belt prior to school so you'll be as prepared as you can get.

A better option that would also let you get more field time and a "feel for Regiment" so to speak, is that you reup after talking with the Ranger recruiters with a company commander contract for a 4187 to go to RASP in your current MOS. If/when you get to attend Ranger school, you'll gain 11B as a secondary MOS given that your primary isn't Infantry... one of the perks of being a "softskill" in Regiment. At that point, it's simply a decision point as to if there is room for you in Regiment/Batt (wherever you land) for an 11B of your rank, and if so then you file a 4187 to swap your primary and secondary MOS... and assume your role in the line, or whereever you land.

Basically, you need to be a shit hot infantryman E-5 and above, with a tab, to be able to make it INTO Regiment, let alone stick around. Even after RASP, your COC and your underlings will both have a microscope on you... you'd get help to do things the Ranger way, but you would need to learn really fucking fast as it is.... and as an E-5 or above who just reclassed to infantry from a completely softskill job? Honestly you'd most likely be out of your element severely. Infantry AIT/OSUT doesn't teach you how to Ranger as an infantryman for the most part, you'll learn much more in RASP... and especially as an NCO, you need to know your shit to be able to swing it.

The softskill 4187 with a tab does happen, although rarely, since most guys really love what they do in Regiment since every mos actually gets to fully do their MOS. Case in point, MSG Van Aalst (RIP). Commo dude. Sniper qual'ed, Ranger qual'ed. Did PV2-SPC (I believe, he in school when I graduated RIP and was assigned to Aco, then was a tabbed Spec-4) in Aco 3/75. 4187'ed to be 11B. Was my team leader up until the sniper section stood up, then went over to the sniper section, flipflopped from AMU to the sniper platoon, then long walked to get really highspeed. It does happen, although once again, as far as I know it's rare since most guys enjoy what they're doing in the MOS they're in due to the quality/quantity of supplies and personnel that they work with/for.

 

[DA SWO]

have you looked at a different MOS within the 160th?

 

[AWP]

You've been wih the 160th for two months and you're already asking "What's next?" You have it in your heart to be a Ranger, but you enlisted as a loggie?

Look, I'm not taking the piss out of you, but understand someone in your unit may see this, or you may vocalize your thoughts, and you're going to need some solid answers to those questions and many more.

If I were in your shoes the first thing I'd do is put my head down, kick ass, and then look at reclassing in such a manner that I could remain in the 160th. Those aren't the bridges you want to burn. Failing that, I'd look into reclassing (or remaining a loggie, but completing your enlistment in the 160th) into a skill which would translate into either unit; I wouldn't start that process until I was 12-18 months away from renlisting. RP has covered the 11B route and to say you have an uphill fight is an understatement. Also understand that if you piss off the 160th you may limit your options with the 75th. A single phone call or email could break you and both units' address books are filed with the same names.

Good luck.

 

[Ranger Psych]

Wow, how did I not even catch that.

You're barely in the army, let alone in a SOF unit as support. You won't even have an option to go/do anything else till 2016. Do your job admirably where you are, and be happy that you made it through the selections to be in one of the best units in the army. You don't want to get sent packing... because that will utterly shitcan any chances of getting to go to Regiment in any MOS. Don't even pay attention to what I said, pay attention to what Freefalling just said.

 

[Ape Doctor]

Roger. Thank you Ranger Psych and Freefalling for the advice and perspective.
I'm currently a SPC with 36 months TIS and will be appearing before an E5 board before the end of the year.

 

[Ranger Psych]

Do you job, do it well. While you *CAN* go infantry, you'll never do it as well as a private that's trained up from the floor up as a master of closing with and destroying the enemy with every means at his disposal. I have had 2 non-11b-starting leaders. Once was Van Aalst, who was Line commo and played all the fuck fuck games and humped a radio for the CO in the woods in Panama among other things... so he was basically a line grunt anyway just like a 13F. The other came in as a SSG, which is quite possibly what you'd be coming across as... and you'd need a Tab stacked up with it. He wasn't a line anything. He was a soup sandwich. He got overridden by his team leaders because his orders would have gotten us killed on company live fires and that fact briefed to the PSG and PL by said TL's, to include them giving a "He goes or We go" effective ultimatim. He got fired.

Pick your choice wisely... Supply in the 75th has room for a SGT or SSG. Even without a tab. It's a good gig. Lots of cool shit to hand off to dudes who put holes in domes and actually take care of it the best they can.

 

[AWP]

Pick your choice wisely... Supply in the 75th has room for a SGT or SSG. Even without a tab. It's a good gig. Lots of cool shit to hand off to dudes who put holes in domes and actually take care of it the best they can.

Piggybacking off your post, not pointing this out to you, but some even go on to do that job for..."specialized" units and I'll leave it at that.

Bottom line for support/ enabler types, there are a lot of good gigs within your respective MOS'. If you hate the job, you hate the job and no unit will change that. If you're happy with that job and looking for a different customer then opportunities abound provided you don't commit career seppuku. Regardless, give it 100% or GTFO. They deserve your best.

 

[Ranger Psych]

Oh yeah, every unit's got sporty supporty peeps... and there's sideways mobility in most of them as well depending where you want to go... more in some than others.

 

[Brill]

If you hate the job, you hate the job and no unit will change that.

Gonna disagree to a degree.

A 35P (language immaterial) in a big Army unit Will almost cetainly be retrained/fulfill a 35N role whereas in ARSOF, if they are worth a shit, will stay in the P and most likely learn some S skills.
*LLVI guys will most likely revert back to their pre-2003 roles as analysts & motorsport NCOs.

@Viper1 and @Squidward collective experience was not the norm...hopefully.

 

[Ape Doctor]

So by the time I'd would be eligible to re-class, I'd most likely be to far in my career to re-class as an 11B and competently fill a leadership position. Mostly because of the fact that I wouldn't have the experience and knowledge expected of me from my subordinates, and leadership. Experience that I could only gain from developing as an infantryman from the beginning of my career. Not to mention, I'd be shooting myself in the foot, career wise, that late in the game. Am I tracking so far?

 

[Ranger Psych]

Pretty much.

You'd be fine for regular Infantry if you went to reclass then got your tab, since Ranger school in and of itself for regular army operations would be bringing you up to speed for general Infantry operations.... but in all honesty, Ranger unit operations are on a order of magnitude different level of planning/support/speed than normal infantry stuff...

Any of the Rangers here right now, who have been out for years, can prattle out actions for conducting a raid/airfield seizure/etc etc starting at packing list and ending at drinking beer in the barracks. Never mind stuff as simple as some of the best places to mount X piece of gear given our type of operations, to everything encompassed by the expert infantryman's badge, to the fastest manner of changing belts/drums/emplacing a gun/etc etc etc etc. At least in my squad and platoon it was pretty standard for "bump up" drills to be done where "senior junior" enlisted take on the team leader positions, and TL's take over the SL position, etc.... never mind having to do everything from their LT's job down through all portions from patrol base to mission to patrol base in Ranger school depending on graded positions they got... you'd have a bunch of PFC's functioning as team leaders, SPC's as squad leaders, and a couple SGT's as PL/PSG... and be doing dry runs of raids, talk-through of actions on the objective, re-consolidation/reorganization, etc etc etc. It's just an extension of holding true to the 6th stanza of the Ranger creed. Though I be the lone survivor and all that.

Now mind you, they only had ROP when I was in, and it was only for NCO's and Officers who were coming from outside the Regiment to try to get leadership positions IN Regiment... but now RASP2 is a recurring requirement for requalification to hold positions of increasing responsibility. Officers and NCO's alike get relieved on the spot in Regiment when they fail to meet the standard. Some of the guys here could probably chime in there as well, since some of us have specific experience regarding that exact event happening and a Captain having to come and take charge of a Platoon, etc. There's very little "margin for error", just like the +/- 30 sec advertised pizza delivery your current unit brags about.

How can you train/explain/quiz a subordinate on what grazing/enfilade/plunging fire, round types, point/area/max effective ranges, fire commands, etc etc etc if it's something you don't know? Explaining/doing actions on the objective, critiquing and training on better employment of X weapon system? Even things like just knowing the fastest way to do drum/mag changes, zero every weapon system in a squad or section, how the operations actually go down, etc etc etc. Coming into Regiment as an NCO, you need to be able to lead and give guidance... which you can't honestly effectively do when you're having to learn everything about the job from damn near the floor up.

I specifically had a softskill SSG who had reclassed from being fuck if I know softskill at Regiment, through 4187, to Infantry. He might have been a fantastic whatever he is before, and he was a great guy individually from what I saw, but he knew less than the PV2+'es he had as subordinates. I actually had to help him configure his gear since he knew the RSOP for his gear but didn't actually know how to set it up yet not be a total soup sandwich. He didn't last long at all.

Learning quick is one thing but contrary to popular belief performing infantry missions, let alone Ranger Infantry operations, is just as technically + tactically intensive as being able to do all the logistics portions that support said operations... Think of it this way. You're a cherry where you're at now... your NCO's have been doing it for a day or 3. Do you think that you, with nothing more than AIT, could honestly step in and do the job of your SGT/SSG where you're at now?

That's basically what reclassing ends up being. Coming as lower enlisted gives you an opportunity to learn how to function as a Ranger, and learn what's expected of a Ranger non-commissioned officer as well. Trying to come across as a non-com with nothing other than AIT and Ranger school (which is pretty much a steadfast requirement prior to attending RASP2, it was for ROP except in very rare circumstances) into Regiment is setting yourself up for failure.

 

[x SF med]

I think the bottom line of everything is......... Be the absolute best at whatever you do or get labeled a shitbird and have no hope of moving anywhere but Ft. Livingroom at the end of your initial enlistment. Especially with the drawdown and RIFs currently in place and in the future.

 

[DA SWO]

You can always reclass CA or Psyop at the end of your enlistment.

Doors close, and others open.

Good luck.

 

[pardus]

You could also take a demotion to SPC if you transfer, that would give you some time to get up to speed. If you're as motivated as you say you are to be an 11B Ranger, of course.

 

[Ranger Psych]

lol, 15/15 and a grade on purpose... that's some WWII calculations right there

 

[dmcgill]

I will say this.

Take all the advice to heart, but take it in stride. IF you truly need (I did not say want) to be an 11B Ranger...you will. At this point in your career any move you make to go that route is going to be full of pain and sacrifice. People will tell you it's stupid, bad career move, you're doomed for failure, it will all be with logic and good reason behind it, and they may very well be telling you with good intentions. But none of that fucking matters. It may be far fetched, the odds may say there is a 99% chance you will fail in your quest, but if that is what ultimately sways you from your goal...you were never meant to achieve it anyway.

 

[CrewGuy]

My question is if you wanted to be a 11B Ranger then why did you ever come over to TF?

I understand 160th may have got back to you first but if what you really wanted was to reclass and in the end become a Ranger you should have done that from the start in all honesty. Im sure you waisted your time and some money surely along with plenty of the Regiments. Your individual command may not be to happy when you drop on them you want to leave after just a few months, but atleast your not a 15T or U who just reenlisted for some big money because that goes over like shit.

Best advice is continue to take to heart what Freefalling and Ranger Psych told you above and if thats what you want go for it. Everybody has their own path and 99.9% of the time its not an easy one so thats up to you to decide. In the end whether you're a 11B Ranger or a 92A Nightstalker strive to be the best at what you do. Im a 15T or MH-60 Crew Chief, our unit revolves around Pilots, Crew Chiefs and Maintainers, but without guys like you we cant do ours & take the customers to the X. So take that for what its worth. Like Freefalling mentioned before, TF isnt the only "Special" place that needs a good 92A.