Pistol Marksmanship Chart

SgtUSMC8541

Marine Scout Sniper
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shooterswheel.jpg








In case the other doesnt print as well...... I have some more but they are in .pdf and I cant get a place to host them... give me a few and I'll get them up.
 
8

8'Duece

Guest
Thanks for posting that Trip. I've wanted that for some time but didn't take the time to find it.

Now I just have print it out and carry it with me to the indoor ranges.


Thanks Brother !
 

Diamondback 2/2

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Okay you guys are probably going to beat me up on this one;), but remember it’s just a point of view.

I think the target group reference chart is really a bad idea for a shooter. I don’t feel that correcting a bad habit can be done by analysis of simple groups on a target. Although these reference charts have been used for many years, what I have notices is shooters will self diagnose a problem that is not real.

Some of the things that I do not like about the chart:

1. It’s built for a right-handed shooter, unless the shooter is aware of this he/ she will really screw them self’s up.
2. If the shooter doesn’t understand sight alignment, the chart will have them chasing groups.
3. Shots breaking left or right can be b/c of the natural wobble and or lack of natural point of aim. The chart simply says too much trigger or thumbing the grips.
4. Low shots are normally due to anticipation, not breaking the wrist down or a drooping head. Low shots can also be caused by focusing on the target vz. The front sight post.
5. High shots can be caused by riding recoil as well a breaking the wrist up.
6. Although trigger control is super key to shooting a pistol, it’s not the only factor of breaking shots left, right, low left, low right or any mix of the group.

Not only the above, but also why would you use a target to analyze what is happening down on the pistol end? The Army is horrible for this, “watch your breathing” or “you changed your sight picture” and the best is “you need to work on your trigger squeeze” (how about trigger control?) and in almost every case they are telling you that at the 25 meter zero target.:doh:

Main point being that an beginner would be lost using this, and advanced shooter would be looking to correct far more then what the chart offers.:2c:
 

TheGunDoctor

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Germany
Excellent points you've made there J.A.B.

I don't consider myself an expert when it comes to pistol marksmanship, but as an intermediate shooter I whole-heartedly agree that low shots are typically due to anticipation.

Furthermore, I believe that the marksmanship instruction taught by the regular Army needs a serious overhaul.

Trainers have become more focused on "range terminology" and explaining the "basic fundamentals" or lack thereof, while pulling away from actually critiquing, showing, and correcting the subtle movements and other specific flaws that result in a shooter's error.
 

SgtUSMC8541

Marine Scout Sniper
Verified Sniper
Joined
Sep 7, 2006
Messages
847
Location
New Yawk
Okay you guys are probably going to beat me up on this one;), but remember it’s just a point of view.

I think the target group reference chart is really a bad idea for a shooter. I don’t feel that correcting a bad habit can be done by analysis of simple groups on a target. Although these reference charts have been used for many years, what I have notices is shooters will self diagnose a problem that is not real.

Some of the things that I do not like about the chart:

1. It’s built for a right-handed shooter, unless the shooter is aware of this he/ she will really screw them self’s up.
2. If the shooter doesn’t understand sight alignment, the chart will have them chasing groups.
3. Shots breaking left or right can be b/c of the natural wobble and or lack of natural point of aim. The chart simply says too much trigger or thumbing the grips.
4. Low shots are normally due to anticipation, not breaking the wrist down or a drooping head. Low shots can also be caused by focusing on the target vz. The front sight post.
5. High shots can be caused by riding recoil as well a breaking the wrist up.
6. Although trigger control is super key to shooting a pistol, it’s not the only factor of breaking shots left, right, low left, low right or any mix of the group.

Not only the above, but also why would you use a target to analyze what is happening down on the pistol end? The Army is horrible for this, “watch your breathing” or “you changed your sight picture” and the best is “you need to work on your trigger squeeze” (how about trigger control?) and in almost every case they are telling you that at the 25 meter zero target.:doh:

Main point being that an beginner would be lost using this, and advanced shooter would be looking to correct far more then what the chart offers.:2c:


Not beating up.......... just responding. :)
1. They have left shooter ones as well.
2. If they have received the proper basic instruction, they will understand proper sight alignment.
3/4/5/6 Very good points and very true…..But with that being said, this chart is not designed to replace the proper instruction given to a student by an instructor. I use it as a handout that the student can bring to the range when shooting by themselves and to use as a quick self correcting reference guide.

Almost every student is unique in some ways.... different from the rest. Hell, when I used to quall at the 200 and the 300, the dope on my rifle was the same. :doh:I didn’t change it at all. Ask me why? I have no freeken idea! I do know that it "should NOT be that way". This is only to be used as a reference guide, not the end all be all.
 

Diamondback 2/2

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Not beating up.......... just responding.
1. They have left shooter ones as well.
Did not know that, never seen one.
2. If they have received the proper basic instruction, they will understand proper sight alignment.
It took me a lot more then a day, week, month, more like a few years to really understand sight alignment. More then what a picture shows.
3/4/5/6 Very good points and very true…..But with that being said, this chart is not designed to replace the proper instruction given to a student by an instructor. I use it as a handout that the student can bring to the range when shooting by themselves and to use as a quick self correcting reference guide.

This is where I really disagree unless they really know whats going on, the chart will ave them over correcting or they may have something else going on. Something the chart does not explain.

Almost every student is unique in some ways.... different from the rest.

Very true!

Hell, when I used to quall at the 200 and the 300, the dope on my rifle was the same. :doh:I didn’t change it at all. Ask me why? I have no freeken idea! I do know that it "should NOT be that way". This is only to be used as a reference guide, not the end all be all.

M16A2 firing M855 will give you a 4.5 to 6 inch drop from 200 to 300 meters.:D


Excellent points you've made there J.A.B.

I don't consider myself an expert when it comes to pistol marksmanship, but as an intermediate shooter I whole-heartedly agree that low shots are typically due to anticipation.

Furthermore, I believe that the marksmanship instruction taught by the regular Army needs a serious overhaul.

Trainers have become more focused on "range terminology" and explaining the "basic fundamentals" or lack thereof, while pulling away from actually critiquing, showing, and correcting the subtle movements and other specific flaws that result in a shooter's error.

I could not agree more with the army and its marksmanship training!!! The army thinks they can fix bad marksmanship with a new optic or a new computer game! :(
 

Erick

SOF Support
Joined
Jun 18, 2008
Messages
5
Location
north CA
It's a starting point, just maybe not a great one.

Here's "a" left hand version.
 

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