Polish GROM/Eastern European SOF discussion

[dknob]

Does GROM follow the Western SOF training culture or does it follow more of that ridiculous Eastern European/Russian/Asian SOF training culture of jumping through rings of fire, breaking blocks with the head, rolling whilst shooting, rolling whilst shooting and screaming AHHH, knife throwing, or training in ridiculous martial arts that could never be utilized in combat?

I ask because of their geographical location.

But they definitely look bad ass.

 

[dknob]

Provides a small up-to-date glimpse into the Units equpiment.

Still, one must ask him self: how is it that a Tier1 SOF/CT unit is being photographed, and photos posted on the internetz for the world to see....

One countries Tier 1 could be another countries Tier 2?

It is not a universal SOF designator/classification, it is really a SOCOM money distribution scheme.
JMAU and JCU are Tier 1 units if I remember correctly. But JCU is nothing but the dorkiest of the SOF communities commo guys.

-- TO be clear: Im not putting down GROM, I think they are bad ass. But I believe their degree of seperation with SMUs are pretty huge.

 

[Ravage]

They follow western standards, but they still do dog and pony shows like the CAPEX stuff you probably seen and been part of in the past decade.
They need the political support.....even when it backfires.

But I believe their degree of seperation with JSOCs SMUs are pretty huge.

Officially 'you are wrong', unoffcially....well, its better those that know both sides sepak out. And I'm sure there are those that do.

 

[Robal2pl]

GROM very rarely do any shows, that one from pics is from minister of defence visit. And no - the shows with breaking blocks etc are over now :) GROM never did those, some army units 15-20 years ago yes.

GROM can be considered Tier 1 unit, when compared with other Poland's SOF units. And seems that they recived a lot of support training from JSOC, since early 90's. But due to different armed forces organisation, legal matters etc - it's hard to say that X unit is on the same tier than unit Y from other country.

 

[Ravage]

some army units 15-20 years ago yes.

Some still do

 

[dknob]

Well that's good to hear. I think you can tell they have the Western doctrine in play.

Like I was telling Ravage, some units, i.e. all of Russias spetsnaz units and a good deal of the oriental SOF units still follow the stupid-shit training doctrine that will only get you killed quicker.

 

[dknob]

i Youtube'd "Spetsnaz training", and all of the videos of them are doing hand to hand combatives, knife throwing, rolling around, walking on rolling logs, slapping bears, punch each other, kick each other, punch and kick each other, repelling upside down to choke people out (um ok).

I cant find any CQB training doctrine or any arms training for that matter other then shooting a pistol blind folded at watermelons.

 

[Ravage]

There are Russian SOF units that follow western-ish standards. Robal probably knows more than I do.

 

[dknob]

lmao, I found this..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OK2In1AgFQU&feature=player_embedded

 

[dknob]

There are Russian SOF units that follow western-ish standards. Robal probably knows more than I do.

They must have been on leave during Beslan and the Theatre crisis'

 

[Ravage]

The Moscow scenario is different. The sheer scale of the hostage taking was, in it self I belive, a new thing to CT/HR units all around.
The Russains had to write the book as they went.
Besides, this is our lane not Ruskie territory

 

[Robal2pl]

Russians like such shows. But they have a lot of "Spetsnaz" called units. Army, Internal Troops, Security Service, Police, Border Guard, Narcotics Police...
Their main HR units - Alpha and Vympiel and some CT elements form other services are...Tier 1 units.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHm_t_7xEqQ&fmt=18

Alpha - recent ops in southern Russia.

 

[dknob]

I dont want to be the negative nancy here, but I don't see anything that constitutes a SOF operation.

 

[dknob]

Sorry, just not a fan of the Ruskies - military or culture. And I'm Bulgarian.. go figure.

 

[Marauder06]

Sorry, just not a fan of the Ruskies - military or culture. And I'm Bulgarian.. go figure.

 

[Robal2pl]

And You know that joke :
"If Poland is again invaded like in 1939 - Germans and Russian at one - who do we fight first?
Germany first - duty before pleasure"

But seriously - yes, some elements of Spetsnaz (including A and V units - CSN FSB ) have good record of hostage situations - airliners, buildings, buses...problems were in 90's in Budyonnovsk and Kyzlar/Pervomayskoye - 100+ terrorist , 1500+ hostages plus ineffetctive crisis management = distaster.
And in Bieslan there were about 40 men from CSN FSB only. 10 KIA.

 

[Marauder06]

lol

And You know that joke :
"If Poland is again invaded like in 1939 - Germans and Russian at one - who do we fight get conquered by first?
Germany first - duty before pleasure"

come on man, let's keep it real...

 

[Robal2pl]

By the way : that joke was made famous by...gen. Patton. In his memories (War As I Knew It) he describes his meeting with gen. Anders , commander of 2ns Polish Corps in Africa in 1943 :

He told me, laughing, that if his corps got in between a German and Russian army, they would have difficulty in deciding which they wanted to fight the most.