Regiment and the T-11 Parachute

[koz]

Precision made/ makes a ram-air pilot's emergency rig that you can land without any toggle input.

The problem is once you turn a ram-air it isn't like a round. While the turns are quicker you lose altitude (sometimes a lot) in a turn unless you know how to fly your canopy. Over the last few years some 50% or so of sport deaths are under functioning canopies that were improperly handled.

When I land on my sport rig, I make most of the landing flare on the rear risers and only transition to toggles near the end as speed/lift dies off. But it is a little canopy (X-braced)

Probably more than that (50%)... I've seen way too many seriously hurt / killed under good canopies. Many instructors fail to teach a braked turn (One toggle at half way the other all the way down ). It can save your life.

Ask Gen Petraeus how he broke his hip - 180 to smack the ground (the wind changed) - and he was on a big canopy - 260sq ft.

 

[AWP]

When I land on my sport rig, I make most of the landing flare on the rear risers and only transition to toggles near the end as speed/lift dies off. But it is a little canopy (X-braced)

Probably more than that (50%)... I've seen way too many seriously hurt / killed under good canopies. Many instructors fail to teach a braked turn (One toggle at half way the other all the way down ). It can save your life.

Ask Gen Petraeus how he broke his hip - 180 to smack the ground (the wind changed) - and he was on a big canopy - 260sq ft.

When I started flying smaller wings (sub 135) I learned how to make stall turns on the rear risers, front riser turns, etc.; stall turns bailed me out on several occasions. I also learned how to land with the rears only, something that saved my ass once as well.

Jumpers fail to learn how to fly their canopies and it can and does kill them.

Then there's other jumpers taking people out....

 

[koz]

When I started flying smaller wings (sub 135) I learned how to make stall turns on the rear risers, front riser turns, etc.; stall turns bailed me out on several occasions. I also learned how to land with the rears only, something that saved my ass once as well.

Jumpers fail to learn how to fly their canopies and it can and does kill them.

Then there's other jumpers taking people out....

What canopy are you flying now? I've got a Xaos21-98 and a Velo 96. I personally like the Xaos better as the openings are softer (especially when doing camera). I had a Xaos-27 but I didn't like the openings on it.

Back to the topic - I'm with you on the bold statement. I too often seen people feel the need to downsize WAY too quickly and end up getting hurt. It's especially frustrating seeing someone who can fly the canopy they have currently and believe if they downsize they fly it better.. :uhh:

 

[AWP]

What canopy are you flying now? I've got a Xaos21-98 and a Velo 96. I personally like the Xaos better as the openings are softer (especially when doing camera). I had a Xaos-27 but I didn't like the openings on it.

Back to the topic - I'm with you on the bold statement. I too often seen people feel the need to downsize WAY too quickly and end up getting hurt. It's especially frustrating seeing someone who can fly the canopy they have currently and believe if they downsize they fly it better.. :uhh:

Depending on my weight at the time....:)

I have a Batwing 134 in my closet (and it shall stay there, the worst canopy I've ever flown), a Jedei 120 with the Eagle Trim lineset on it (similar to what modern canopies have as opposed to Stilletos and the lack from the late 90's), and I currently fly a 150 Sabre II. I'm not jumping enough to justify a Katana or Samurai.

I was pretty aggressive in my downsizing (220 @ 30 jumps, 170 Sabre @ ~80 jumps, a 135 Viper @ ~200 jumps and a 120 Jedei @ ~400 jumps) but I did so with a lot of coaching and mentoring, was jumping every weekend, was not an aggressive canopy pilot, and stayed at small to medium DZs. Not everyone should do that but I still think the risks were minimal.

However, I've seen guys with a 1000 jumps (or more) fly large and small canopies with their heads up their ass (Kudos to you, Danny, I'm sure Bob appreciated it) too. Bill Booth once commented that we could make the sport very safe and skydivers would still find a way to kill 40 a year.

Personally on the outside looking in, from military rounds to MFF to weekend fun-jumper...learn how to fly your canopy, how it works, what it does if you do x or y.....that knowledge could save your life or someone else's.

As the T-11 is integrated into Mother Army I'd be curious to see injury statistics over time with it.

 

[koz]

. It's especially frustrating seeing someone who can fly the canopy they have currently and believe if they downsize they fly it better.. :uhh:

That was supposed to say "someone who CAN'T fly the canopy".... :doh:

 

[koz]

However, I've seen guys with a 1000 jumps (or more) fly large and small canopies with their heads up their ass (Kudos to you, Danny, I'm sure Bob appreciated it) too. Bill Booth once commented that we could make the sport very safe and skydivers would still find a way to kill 40 a year.

Personally on the outside looking in, from military rounds to MFF to weekend fun-jumper...learn how to fly your canopy, how it works, what it does if you do x or y.....that knowledge could save your life or someone else's.

As the T-11 is integrated into Mother Army I'd be curious to see injury statistics over time with it.

Yeah - Danny fucked up and it cost him and Bob their lives.. For those who don't know Bob Holler was a retired PJ and Danny was a retired Combat Controller. Danny was a VERY experienced skydiver, MMF-JM, rigger, USPA director, TM, AFF-IE; but he ran into the back of Bob's canopy entangling them, and killed them. Experienced jumpers die and as Free said, it's usually due to stupidity or carelessness. Danny was a good guy and operator but it's a shame it it all ended this way..

We forget we hurl ourselves out of a perfectly good airplane, fall really fast toward earth, and then expect a piece of nylon to save our lives...

 

[koz]

But back to the topic at hand - I did a little research on the T11 and it's not steerable. It does incorporate a slider which will help on the opening shock and the descent rate is less than the T-10


ATPS Main Canopy
The ATPS main canopy is a highly modified and refined
version of the cross/cruciform planform parachute and
it exploits two of the most important characteristics of
cross parachutes: inherent stability and inherent gentle
opening. Unlike the T-10, the ATPS also incorporates
a slider which controls the opening speed of the
canopy and eliminates the possibility of a canopy inversion
or line over malfunction.
At 375 ft. (115m.) below the aircraft deployment altitude,
the ATPS rate of descent is 18 ft/sec (4.48 m/
sec) for a jumper with an All Up Weight (AUW) of 382
lbs. (173.2 kg). When compared with the T-10, the
slower rate of descent results in a 40% reduction in
impact energy upon landing.

http://www.airborne-sys.com/productlisting.htm#

http://www.airborne-sys.com/pdfs/ATPS (8.07).pdf

 

[RetPara]

Back in the early 80's the 82nd was doing MassTac's with -1's. That was NOT a good experience. I don't care what unit your in, but say in a Bn Mass Tac with 800+ jumpers.... You probably have 10% that are so scared (but went out the door) that they just hold and pray all the way down... You could who they were because they turned and ran with the wind and drove into the ground or turned into the wind at the last moment... 15% think they are Sky Gods and try to steer for the nearest turn in point to their Co Assembly area. The scared guys are predictable... these guys aren't. They can get so fixated on the the turn in point they lose situation awareness that The other 75% will try to stay out of the way of everyone else.

The genesis of the ATSP was the amount of weight jumpers have to carry now. It would also seem that soldiers are getting bigger. So it may have a slower rate of descent with a nominal load at sea level... what would the rate of descent then be at a higher altitude (Afghanistan) with a combat load.

 

[RAGE275]

I jumped a t-11 a couple weeks ago and no way, thing is definitely not steerable. However, having the toggles is nice as far as preventing oscillation and making for a relatively smoother landing compared to a 2 riser slip. RetPara hit the nail on the head. Talking to a couple riggers that's exactly why we jump T-10 instead of the T-11. Imagine a masstac, pitch black and 60 Rangers steering their way through the midnight sky. It's a recipe for disaster. I'm happy jumping with my T-10. Unless it's a Hollywood fun jump.