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Sec Def wants civilians "laterally" entered as O's
- Thread starter RackMaster
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*sits over here with a whisky, scowl, and an unusable 27 due to the RE4.....*
Devildoc
Verified Military
They do. The waiver basically says "you ain't seeing retirement."
Florida173
SOF Support
I believe some would hit their MRD too soon to be valuable
Hmmm, I have no problem with prior service coming back in as and officer at field grade level, especially when they possess education or special skills and life experiences fitting to the level of rank.
I completely disagree (line officer or not) with someone walking in off the street as anything other than a cadet or PVT. Honestly, I've always felt everyone should serve minimum of 24mths enlisted and achieve E4 prior to being admitted to an academy or ROTC program.
The last thing the Army needs is more problematic leadership in the Officer corps.
$.02
I completely disagree (line officer or not) with someone walking in off the street as anything other than a cadet or PVT. Honestly, I've always felt everyone should serve minimum of 24mths enlisted and achieve E4 prior to being admitted to an academy or ROTC program.
The last thing the Army needs is more problematic leadership in the Officer corps.
$.02
With the apparent reluctance of most Americans to serve their country, it'll boil down to salaries/benefits...because if the military incentives aren't comparable to the private sector, you'll end up with 2nd team candidates. And experts established in their careers tend to have homes, families, etc and are rooted.
Devildoc
Verified Military
Most of the people who join "these" types of jobs aren't doing it to reach a command level. And those who do end up going through command school, staff school, all sorts of school to put them in that position.
I can't speak to the non-medical/JAG fields, but I don't know how many health care professionals or attorneys have enough love of country and desire to serve to enter as an O1. And many of the others who come in with graduate degrees and skill expertise shouldn't have to enter as O1.
I can't speak to the non-medical/JAG fields, but I don't know how many health care professionals or attorneys have enough love of country and desire to serve to enter as an O1. And many of the others who come in with graduate degrees and skill expertise shouldn't have to enter as O1.
This could be a great program if done right, and the military could use some SMEs of the caliber being discussed. I think it's ludicrous to think these people should have to start as an O-1 or something else. Why? The Army creates its own shitty leaders, someone coming in off the street with real experience in their field would be a good thing. Especially when it comes to the cyber and IT communities.
No, some of the docs they bring in are older than dirt.
I strongly disagree. Prior service O's tend to be amazing or a bag of shit. Prior enlisted time does not confer wisdom at the next level.
I don't disagree on the wisdom aspect. My reason for that statement, is I think a lot of time, money and efforts are wasted on young men gaining a commission that never had any business putting on a uniform. The enlisted time would weed much of that out. Also it gives a understanding of what takes place at the lower enlisted level and would hopefully weed out some stupid decisions. The draw backs would obviously be a know it all officer who won't listen, but those will get grinded out. I'd rather deal with some attitude vs someone who just doesn't care and doesn't want to be there.
$.02
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Red Flag 1
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Two thoughts:
1.)These will likely be direct commissions, with basic looking a Boy Scout 2 week orientation. They will not be line officers, and will not be able to make any Line Officer decisions. The NCO's within the Officers sphere of influence will keep them in check.
2.) The commissions these officers will get, will come out of the Line Officer allotments. That said, the higher in rank they go, the greater will be the competition for rank. Maybe 80% will see 0-3, 40% 0-4 and 20% seeing 0-5. I doubt many will see active service long enough to see full retirement. They will be scalped down, with new direct commissioned officers filling in the lower ranks. Don't expect the line to cough up retirement winning slots.
Something I would like to see, is each new officer going through OCS. The cost of OCS slots-v-Boy Scout Camp slots, will keep OCS a line officer only requirement.
Above is the life of medical support Officers, nonMD eye docs, Physical Therapy, Food Service, Veterinarians, and a few others are all in the same USAF Corps, competing for the same promotion spots. I think that will be the model for Civilian to Officer folks.
My $.02.
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policemedic
Verified SWAT
All the advanced practice nursing students I worked with through USUHS were MAJ (or other service equivalent); one may have been a LTC. Unlike their counterparts who are earning their MD though USUHS, nurses don't lose rank while they are there.
You may want to consider USUHS for your CRNA training, especially since they're combining it into a dual DNP/CRNA program.
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Red Flag 1
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When I was in the Army, CRNA's came in as First Lt., In the USAF, a few years later, they came onboard as First Lts too. If they had several years of experience, they might see railroad tracks. The only direct commissions that came in as Capt were Lawyers and MDs. I knew one General Surgeon who came onboard as an 0-4. He was in his 50's and saw patients in his office. In the five months I knew him, we only saw him in the OR once, and that was to help an OB/Gyn Doc. He was sent off somewhere, and have no idea what happened to him.
It would be worth your while to chat with a Nurse Recruiter. The nursing, and CRNA shortage may be enough to see you come on as an 0-3.
Devildoc
Verified Military
It's been my experience that direct commissions, as a rule, want to do their job and not get involved in the intricacies of command/leadership. As they climb in rank they are expected to to hold collateral duties and some leadership roles. In the Navy the Chiefs are very much engaged in assisting groom offices in leadership. Likewise the senior officers in that particular community mentor those below who want to grow. The ones who want to achieve rank and leadership stay in until retirement and go to the ticket-punching command and leadership schools, the others, usually long enough to fulfill their contractual obligation.
As for competition for rank and advancement, at last in the Navy, it is within a particular community. I wasn't competing with Line officer O1s/O2s, and O3s for promotion, just those within my community.
Red Flag 1
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I concur,@ Devildoc. As an officer progresses in his/her field of involvement, there are "career broadening" assignments that interface them with line officers. If it goes well, the OER's look much stronger when competing for promotion.
The Line slots that are given up for non line officers are pretty much stable from year to year. As the officer moves along in their career, the "career broadening" gives the officer the chance to get endorsements from line officers.
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Look into USAGPAN (Army's CRNA school) when you start applying. It's a top rated program and you get all your pay and benefits for the whole 36 months. This is huge. The direct accession guys I went to school with did OBC at Ft Sam then straight over to school. You may have to start as an 0-1E but will be close to captain when you graduate, depends on how much constructive credit you get for working as an RN before you start. Rank doesn't matter in school anyway, you're always the low man. Once you do your payback and start getting the full retention bonus (currently $50,000) you will be making more than any one else at your pay grade except some docs. Plus you can moonlight for some extra cash and experience.
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I was approached by my command about going before a Direct Commission Officer board in July. Turns out the Supply Corps is really hurting for Contacting Officers. I never envisioned myself being a Supply Corps officer in the Navy. I spoke with a few Commanders and Lt. Commanders and the consenus was the best shot is to be DAWIA Lvl 2 certified, hold a warrant, and have an MBA. So, once I finish up my MBA, I have full intentions to at least go before the board and put forth my best effort. Yes, it's a measly two week summer camp after you are accepted, but never the less, you are a commissioned officer.
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