Shaving & CBRN.....

Crusader74

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Okay, Gents.. Question.

Is there any public US Army SOPs on why shaving in the field is necessary to have a secure fit on the respirators? To prevent leakage into the face.?

I know the US Military in exceptional circumstances allow beards(SOF) but you are mostly clean shaven which is the same as us.

Cheers.
 

AWP

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Okay, Gents.. Question.

Is there any public US Army SOPs on why shaving in the field is necessary to have a secure fit on the respirators? To prevent leakage into the face.?

I know the US Military in exceptional circumstances allow beards(SOF) but you are mostly clean shaven which is the same as us.

Cheers.

Yes. The hair won't allow for a proper seal therefore you have to shave.

I have a goatee and the AF told me I'd have to shave it when I was outfitting for my contracting gig. I told them to bugger off and fit me for the mask; if it leaked then I'd shave just long enough to fit the mask. I had no problems with a seal and I'd bet you could go 5 or 6 days (for a fast grower) before you noticed any problems with the seal on your mask.

IMO, the military needs a better fitting or better designed mask/ harness. I don't know how many times I've had the elastic harness twist up and leave me with a lungfull of CS.
 

Diamondback 2/2

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A better fit and a full face window, trying to run CQB training with the current mask sucks balls. I would hate to actually have to fight room to room wearing that mask…
 

Crusader74

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Part of our CBRN training we're taught about having a secure seal on the respirator to prevent leakage into the face. In saying that, the CBRN instructor takes great pleasure in getting us to take them off and get a mouth full or two:sick:
 

Diamondback 2/2

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Part of our CBRN training we're taught about having a secure seal on the respirator to prevent leakage into the face. In saying that, the CBRN instructor takes great pleasure in getting us to take them off and get a mouth full or two:sick:

Yeah its pretty well the same in the Army, in Basic you break seal and saying some bullshit like general orders or creed to ensure you get a taste, then reseal and clear. The NG has a train up prior to deployment where we have to test our masks, basically the same as basic training, but normally some PT or some gay shit like that. I fucking hate the CS chamber...
 

goon175

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Trying to fix a neck/face injury with all that hair in the way is no fun either. If your primary mission is to conduct DA, you should be clean shaven. If your primary mission is to work with/along side indig. forces, then you should look like them, if that means a beard, then so be it. I don't think the Pro-Mask argument has any bearing on current operations.

On a side note: Beards totally look cool.
 

Brill

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I Was on a submarine with a guy who shaved where the O2 mask (firefighting) seal would go: that's it! Had a good seal AND a "beard" too.

Submariners are different.
 

pardus

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I remember a book written by a Navy Harrier pilot during the Falklands War, he said that he was ordered to shave for this reason while they were on their way south, He told them to piss off as he was within Queens Regs. :cool:

I would like to see evidence of beard length vs mask seal being broken. I'm sure it happens at a certain point but with modern Military bias against beards, I have no doubt that a lot of this is just horse shit to conform to current Military fashion.
 

Ranger Psych

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My experience is obviously with the m40 promask coupled with NBC company defense training followed by MSA SCBA use/training in the civilian sector as a firefighter.

One day's growth was the rule for firefighting... any more than that and you're at best support, at worst you get left at the house. We did an in-house study with 5 people of various beard quality capability and had them re-qual with their originally, shaven face, sealing SCBA mask.. and after 2 days 4 of the 5 couldn't maintain a proper seal... this was using the same sort of machine testing based (move your head around talk breathe do flutter kicks jumping jacks now talk dirty to me baby ok that's too dirty pushups go) that I used for testing or was tested in the army. The banana oil/smelling salts test is inadequate.

Obviously clean shaven has a huge bit to deal with just "professional appearance" as well as a visible personal hygiene indicator for those who may have slovenly troops. The reason we did the time lapse seal testing is simply because volunteer firefighting is like a permanent QRF... middle of the night, wake up, save the day... being able to have shaved in the last 48 hours actually would make response time faster on average by 30 seconds... I still was running my electric razor scraping my face on the way to the station, it took me 3-8 minutes depending on traffic and since the road was straight I could get away with it. Plus, a structural fire is just as hazardous as a CBRN environment, it just kills you in a more painful and drawn out manner if you didn't pay the fuck attention, compared to say VX.
 

pardus

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You had me until you said this...

Obviously clean shaven has a huge bit to deal with just "professional appearance" as well as a visible personal hygiene indicator for those who may have slovenly troops.

Like I said, it's current Military fashion, little more.
 

Ranger Psych

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Well, let's be honest: If a private isn't going to take the time to scrape his face as directed, what's to say he did take a baby wipe to his nuts, changed his socks, and fucking put some gold bond on his crotch so he doesn't get junk-ratchet on that 25k movement you have to do in a couple hours?

You may be a ball checker, but I'll use the scruff as my chosen delineating marker that PV2 shizboll didn't do personal hygiene.

I see lack of shaving as a mission necessity if you're in need of melding better with your local forces, or conservation of resources at the lowest level while deployed... but guess what, 670-1 or whatever the fuck they have now... if you're cool enough to warrant the war-beard your command will sign off on letting you have one for the duration, especially if you have some young bucks that can't grow scruff to save their life. If you ain't cool enough? here's your gillette, don't come back from the latrine looking like you got in a fight with a belt sander.
 

Diamondback 2/2

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OSHA is kind of limited on info...

U.S. DoL OSHA General guide for Respirators in the work place.

Can I wear a respirator if I have a beard?

Anything that prevents the face mask from fitting tightly against your face, such as a beard or long sideburns, may cause leakage. If your respirator requires a tight fit, you must trim back your beard so that it will not interfere with the face-facepiece seal. If your respirator is a loose-fitting (hooded) positive pressure respirator (e.g., a powered air-purifying respirator, PAPR) then you may have a beard.

http://www.osha.gov/dts/shib/respiratory_protection.pdf
BBC article on the issue
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-12740975

The British Navy also has its own beard tradition - allowing a "full set" (beard plus moustache) on the permission of the commanding officer. The Navy does not accept the argument that a beard prevents a gas mask working effectively.
 

pardus

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Well, let's be honest: If a private isn't going to take the time to scrape his face as directed, what's to say he did take a baby wipe to his nuts, changed his socks, and fucking put some gold bond on his crotch so he doesn't get junk-ratchet on that 25k movement you have to do in a couple hours?

You may be a ball checker, but I'll use the scruff as my chosen delineating marker that PV2 shizboll didn't do personal hygiene.

I see lack of shaving as a mission necessity if you're in need of melding better with your local forces, or conservation of resources at the lowest level while deployed... but guess what, 670-1 or whatever the fuck they have now... if you're cool enough to warrant the war-beard your command will sign off on letting you have one for the duration, especially if you have some young bucks that can't grow scruff to save their life. If you ain't cool enough? here's your gillette, don't come back from the latrine looking like you got in a fight with a belt sander.

Agreed, that wasn't my point though.

There have been plenty of Armies and units throughout history (including the US Army) that wore beards, all professional etc...
 

Ranger Psych

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Yep, and there have been plenty of Armies and units throughout history who haven't had to deal with the threat of a NBC battlefield. Unfortunately, we DO.

As it is, the only advantage allowing beards to select troops now is the fact that generally speaking, the weapon that would cause the most widespread contamination and devastation is actually also the most easily defended and dealt with, regarding contamination. A Nuclear battlefield beyond the actual ohfuckwegotnuked portion of it, is easy to work in/around/through. Bio and Chem are very much point target type weapons, with delivery systems for any widespread application that are a bitch.. Never mind the whole fact that fucking up during delivery means the grim postman dies where they stand, as well as contaminating the whole AO.

I can't say that the thought of Hadji fucking up a VX delivery and hosing their whole compound/complex/whatever doesn't bring a smile to my face.
 
B

Boon

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Well I'm sure this thread won't go off into Kiwi homo-erotic fantasies after that statement. :-"

Yeah I hesitate before every post that might be construed as gay, but I thought it was too relevant to not post lol
 

CDG

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Yeah I hesitate before every post that might be construed as gay, but I thought it was too relevant to not post lol

Taking into account your stated thought process before posting, and the proclivity some members have for turning anything gay, I am simply amazed that you have 5,000+ posts. :D
 

LibraryLady

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Taking into account your stated thought process before posting, and the proclivity some members have for turning anything gay, I am simply amazed that you have 5,000+ posts. :D

Cuz, um, he owns this joint? :D

LL
 
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