So is both the M17 and M18 trash or what?

ArtaPlageSurfer said:
Not a reddit member, could you post the story or a link?
Ths
Click to expand...
USAF put out a memo on 21 July saying the M18 will not be issued for duty/training purposes while an incident at F.E. Warren AFB is investigated.

Unconfirmed reports say a security forces NCO was killed when it discharged in their holster.
 
This is just weird. He took his holstered gun off of his belt and set it down on a table in just the right way that it was pointed directly at his chest and just went off with no other inputs and no modifications?

I do a lot of work with the 320 platform. I do not consider myself an expert and there have been enough reports that I take them seriously. But as currently presented, it just doesn't pass the sniff test with me.
 
/\
What I was thinking and chose not to post (new guy again and all). Time will tell. I have extensive "use experience", very extensive use, and that was my first thought after the follow-up post.
The 17 and Safariland, 18 wasn't around when neurological issues took me off the gun line for good.
 
The handful of AF Security Forces guys I've spoken to (in 2021 and 2024) do not like, nor trust, the gun. A friend of mine who shoots IPSC and IDPA has seen Sigs break, one was with an ATF agent. No one in his gun club will have anything to do with the model.

Problems with the DoD's 320 version go back to at least 2018.
Documents detail U.S. soldiers shot by their own Sig Sauer guns; military says no reason for concern

Did Sig's quality go down the drain? Don't know. The above is all anecdotal of course, but there are too many other platforms out there for me to consider a Sig. To fuel the fire, there are reports the new rifle is bad too.

I'll pass on the brand. YMMV
 
AWP said:
The handful of AF Security Forces guys I've spoken to (in 2021 and 2024) do not like, nor trust, the gun. A friend of mine who shoots IPSC and IDPA has seen Sigs break, one was with an ATF agent. No one in his gun club will have anything to do with the model.

Problems with the DoD's 320 version go back to at least 2018.
Documents detail U.S. soldiers shot by their own Sig Sauer guns; military says no reason for concern

Did Sig's quality go down the drain? Don't know. The above is all anecdotal of course, but there are too many other platforms out there for me to consider a Sig. To fuel the fire, there are reports the new rifle is bad too.

I'll pass on the brand. YMMV
Click to expand...

I have or have had almost all of the p2XX series, their 1911*, and the P239 (to me one of the best CC guns, ever). It is my opinion that their quality went down when they moved from Germany to New Hampshire and decided to make everything under the sun, to include funky colors and weird rifles. I would still be OK with the 2XX series but honestly nothing else.

*I had to send the 1911 back a couple times to get right, but once it was right, it ran like a raped ape, fantastic gun.

SIG turned me into a H&K guy with USPs and the HK45c.
 
AWP said:
The handful of AF Security Forces guys I've spoken to (in 2021 and 2024) do not like, nor trust, the gun. A friend of mine who shoots IPSC and IDPA has seen Sigs break, one was with an ATF agent. No one in his gun club will have anything to do with the model.

Problems with the DoD's 320 version go back to at least 2018.
Documents detail U.S. soldiers shot by their own Sig Sauer guns; military says no reason for concern

Did Sig's quality go down the drain? Don't know. The above is all anecdotal of course, but there are too many other platforms out there for me to consider a Sig. To fuel the fire, there are reports the new rifle is bad too.

I'll pass on the brand. YMMV
Click to expand...
They used to say the same about the HK P2000 when it was an issued service weapon for Border Patrol and other agencies. Nothing was wrong with that pistol.
 
Devildoc said:
I have or have had almost all of the p2XX series, their 1911*, and the P239 (to me one of the best CC guns, ever). It is my opinion that their quality went down when they moved from Germany to New Hampshire and decided to make everything under the sun, to include funky colors and weird rifles. I would still be OK with the 2XX series but honestly nothing else.

*I had to send the 1911 back a couple times to get right, but once it was right, it ran like a raped ape, fantastic gun.

SIG turned me into a H&K guy with USPs and the HK45c.
Click to expand...
I did the opposite. I had a HK P2000 and moved to a Sig P229. Both are terrific pistols - accurate, reliable, etc.

I went to Sig because I was shooting .40 and the P229 had a "beefier", all metal frame as opposed to HK's polymer. I had no quantitative evidence to say this better (I never had an issue of any kind with the HK), but I felt the Sig may be more durable and I just shot it better. More importantly, neither were striker fire. 😁
 
Marauder06 said:
This is just weird. He took his holstered gun off of his belt and set it down on a table in just the right way that it was pointed directly at his chest and just went off with no other inputs and no modifications?

I do a lot of work with the 320 platform. I do not consider myself an expert and there have been enough reports that I take them seriously. But as currently presented, it just doesn't pass the sniff test with me.
Click to expand...
I have two Safariland 6354's. One for a G47 the other for a Sig 320. I cannot fit my finger into the trigger with the one made for Glock. However I can with the one for the 320.

Edit. I'm not going to go off on asking why it was pointed at him, I wouldn't have done that because of rule number one.
 
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The Quartermaster said:
I have two Safariland 6354's. One for a G47 the other for a Sig 320. I cannot fit my finger into the trigger with the one made for Glock. However I can with the one for the 320.

Edit. I'm not going to go off on asking why it was pointed at him, I wouldn't have done that because of rule number one.
Click to expand...

I'm willing to bet it was in a MHHC holster, since those are pretty standard issue. Hard if not impossible to get your finger in those.

1000005757.jpg

It's all still weird. We'll have to wait and see what the offical findings are, but I understand the stand down. Especially after the recent news about federal/state LEO organizations getting rid of/refusing to buy these weapons.
 
Why would the Army get rid of a Sig?
We've got retirees working there !!!
...plus, they still owe us some belt fed machine guns and a few hundred carbines chambered in a new bullshit proprietary "Sig" round

get rid of the M18 - surely you jest
 

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