So is both the M17 and M18 trash or what?

[Marauder06]

Plot twist...
Airman arrested for death that prompted Air Force-wide safety review of Sig M18

Shocker.

This is just weird. He took his holstered gun off of his belt and set it down on a table in just the right way that it was pointed directly at his chest and just went off with no other inputs and no modifications?

I do a lot of work with the 320 platform. I do not consider myself an expert and there have been enough reports that I take them seriously. But as currently presented, it just doesn't pass the sniff test with me.

 

[The Quartermaster]

Maybe I missed it, what happened?

 

[AWP]

AF Cops still playing quick draw.
Different generation, same results.

Comm squadron at Bagram around 2010 would have contests in the Comm Focal Point b-hut judged by the other members of the squadron. A couple of the participants were TSgts.

Stupid human tricks, old as time itself.

 

[The Quartermaster]

Ah, so that's what happened. Reddit and arfcom are on full denial mode that it was still the 320 despite the facts saying otherwise. Lol, SMH the clowns.

Airman arrested for death that prompted Air Force-wide safety review of Sig M18

 

[amlove21]

Plot twist...
Airman arrested for death that prompted Air Force-wide safety review of Sig M18

This is CRAZY. In the civilian world, a dude putting out a memo that led to millions lost in stock prices would be liable for slander and defamation.

 

[AWP]

Good. All of the other problems and FBI stuff and whatnot just magically went away, I guess?

 

[amlove21]

Good. All of the other problems and FBI stuff and whatnot just magically went away, I guess?

2 things can be true at once, the 320 100000% fires I commanded… but also linking the death of an active duty Airman to the weapon which has hundreds of millions worth of government contracts when that’s not the case should also carry a penalty.

 

[Cookie_]

This is CRAZY. In the civilian world, a dude putting out a memo that led to millions lost in stock prices would be liable for slander and defamation.

I think there's a difference between being cautious and being slanderous. I can't fault AFGSC for pausing usage of the weapons while they investigated.

 

[Isiah6:8]

This is CRAZY. In the civilian world, a dude putting out a memo that led to millions lost in stock prices would be liable for slander and defamation.

You would be shocked at what people can put out and not have the gov't (SEC) jump on them immediately that loses public companies that much money.

In most competent businesses there are strict guidelines on what you can say, post, like, comment, etc today as well as what needs to be done if you do end up receiving or wishing to receive material non public information. But we also have strict gun laws in IL so....

 

[Marauder06]

We've talked about this before: "first reports are always wrong." Knee-jerk over-reactions to things that conspicuously don't make sense--from the Jussie Smollett hate hoax to COVID mitigation measures to "muh gun jus went off! in the holster! all by itself!" warrant some level of initial scrutiny first.

 

[AWP]

You would be shocked at what people can put out and not have the gov't (SEC) jump on them immediately that loses public companies that much money.

In most competent businesses there are strict guidelines on what you can say, post, like, comment, etc today as well as what needs to be done if you do end up receiving or wishing to receive material non public information. But we also have strict gun laws in IL so....

That doesn't even count insider trading designed to tank a company's stock. My wife works for a company that had a CEO leave. The company received an email out of the blue announcing his retirement kind of at an odd time of the day. I pulled up the company's stock and could track when the board was notified, when corporate as a whole knew, when the email went out, and then the sell off after the price was inflated. You could see the price spikes and plateaus as the news spread.

 

[amlove21]

The lesson we can learn again? Guns don't kill people. People kill people.

 

[AWP]

The lesson we can learn again?

Honorable mention: General officers suck.

 

[Box]

How about a Tim Kennedy, limited edition P320 then?

Topical and appropriate...
...it masquerades as a great pistol.
...it comes from good stock.
...it's from a reputable manufacturer
...it actually has a proven track record
...and yet, it still self destructs when left alone on its own timeline

 

[AWP]

Topical and appropriate...
...it masquerades as a great pistol.
...it comes from good stock.
...it's from a reputable manufacturer
...it actually has a proven track record
...and yet, it still self destructs when left alone on its own timeline

Hand grenades sold separately.

 

[Marauder06]

I went to a bullseye match this weekend. Brought my SIG Legion X5, a variant of the P320, because I shoot that best. I didn't bring any other guns because I didn't expect to need them for a static match where you shoot like 50 rounds.

When I got to the match, inside the club house they had a sign that 320s are banned at their range. I asked if that was still in effect, and they said yes. So I ended up shooting (poorly) a friend's 1911.

The P320 ban is reactionary and stupid, especially in a match where there's no movement, no holstering or unholstering during the match, and the chance of dropping the gun is close to zero.

And oh yeah, you remember the "witness" who claimed his buddy shot himself with a holstered M18, the event that spurred this latest round of SIG alarmism? Yeah, he killed himself a couple of days ago. He got arrested when the Air Force investigated and smelled BS. Anyone with any experience at all in the military or with firearms should also have smelled BS over a story of "he took off his belt, put it on the table pointed at himself, and it just went off." That story made no sense from the start.

Airman found dead at F.E. Warren was under investigation for M18 incident

 

[Box]

So not only did the M18 kill his buddy - it killed him too?

That is SO crazy...
...that sounds like I story I heard about a 1958 Plymouth Fury.
...the car, just like the M18, seemed to be able to repair itself to avoid scrutiny
...but that car was a killer.

Them M18's ain't fucking around.

 

[The Quartermaster]

I went to a bullseye match this weekend. Brought my SIG Legion X5, a variant of the P320, because I shoot that best. I didn't bring any other guns because I didn't expect to need them for a static match where you shoot like 50 rounds.

When I got to the match, inside the club house they had a sign that 320s are banned at their range. I asked if that was still in effect, and they said yes. So I ended up shooting (poorly) a friend's 1911.

The P320 ban is reactionary and stupid, especially in a match where there's no movement, no holstering or unholstering during the match, and the chance of dropping the gun is close to zero.

And oh yeah, you remember the "witness" who claimed his buddy shot himself with a holstered M18, the event that spurred this latest round of SIG alarmism? Yeah, he killed himself a couple of days ago. He got arrested when the Air Force investigated and smelled BS. Anyone with any experience at all in the military or with firearms should also have smelled BS over a story of "he took off his belt, put it on the table pointed at himself, and it just went off." That story made no sense from the start.

Airman found dead at F.E. Warren was under investigation for M18 incident

You should have told them that it's a Sig P250, they wouldn't have cared and no one would have been none the wiser since they're identical right down to the same magazines and grip modules.

 

[Marauder06]

You should have told them that it's a Sig P250, they wouldn't have cared and no one would have been none the wiser since they're identical right down to the same magazines and grip modules.

I probably should have just shot it regardless. I made so many mods to it, it doesn't even look like a 320.

 

[DA SWO]

Sig should hire this guy to rep their product.