The Afghanistan and Pakistan Thread

[R.Caerbannog]

Its simple. Military industrial complex. There was money to be made. Long term deals with Halliburton, etc were made and the decision makers were/are connected. The longer you stay, the more doe you make. It's still happening today. War is a lucrative business for company executives...er..I mean "elected" officials.

I'd like to agree with you, but I always assumed the Military Industrial Complex was more competent. We've been at war for 20+ years and it seems like the MIC didn't invest in their own manufacturing and tech centers. From what I'm hearing, the Russians and Chinese are doing a better arms buildup than we are. Which is pretty bad considering how incompetent and corrupt Russia and China are.

I'm not arguing with your points above. My take is, was the "US as the world's policeman" policy made as a feel-good or whateverthehell gesture that was co-opted or was the policeman argument started specifically for an end-game, slow burn strategy? I don't know because I think both arguments have merit. What I don't deny is there are obvious efforts made on behalf of a number of interests/ entities which are detrimental to the US'...future existence.

I guess one "fer instance" could be the current trans or DEI bullshit. Were those policies started to play into the hands of our enemies or to destroy the country OR were they more feel-good initiatives started by a group of wack jobs, later picked up by Soros et. al. for their purposes? In the case of the trans debate, I take the latter view. It slowly gained steam in fringe groups and then later exploded into America's consciousness. How did that explosion happen? Traditional and social media coverage. Those can be bought or manipulated, but they aren't cheap. Someone identified a divisive topic in America and then poured money into that topic, placing it front and center.

And that is what's concerning. Not only is haj inside the wire, he's sipping chai whilst chilling out at the command center, feeding information to our enemies, and he's actively fucking with our comms. It seems we are in agreement, that from a national security standpoint, we're in a precarious position.

On the bright side... now that we know haj is inside the wire, the trick is finding how long he's been there, and how compromised our defenses are. That's the rub. Cause I think think haj got help from people on the inside. Finding them and connecting them back to haj is going to be a bitch though.

It's a hard pill for those of us who served abroad to swallow, but I've accepted that we were duped. I take solace in the fact that some bad people no longer exist, and we did our jobs, but also accept that we were used to make other bad people rich. That's only my conclusion, FWIW.

Honestly Top, I just wanna find out who betrayed us. We did the right thing and won where we needed to. Not our fault they lost it for us.

 

[Topkick]

Chinese are doing a better arms buildup than we are. Which is pretty bad considering how incompetent and corrupt Russia and China are.

There are different functions within the MIC, and administration's have differing priorities. This administration is utilizing the MIC for financial gain, as democrat administration's in my lifetime have never placed a priority on improving or even maintaining our own military might.

 

[R.Caerbannog]

There are different functions within the MIC, and administration's have differing priorities. This administration is utilizing the MIC for financial gain, as democrat administration's in my lifetime have never placed a priority on improving or even maintaining our own military might.

That tracks. I would have figured the MIC to have been better staffed and led. Especially given the money and access to resources they have. Maybe they have a similar problem with commie degenerates infesting their ranks.

Add on: Had a thought. If the MIC is compromised and full of woke retards, we might be fucked.

 

[AWP]

Add on: Had a thought. If the MIC is compromised and full of woke retards, we might be fucked.

As a former Lockheed contractor, you are on the right path.

 

[Gunz]

Go through the litany of major defense contractors: RTX, General Dynamics, Northrop Grumann, Oshkosh, UT (Sikorsky etc where my dad retired from), Honeywell, DynCorp, Navistar and Lockheed etc...and you will find they all have the same DEI policies & statements as the rest of corporate America.

Why? Because when you depend on government contracts it's wise to follow government policies.

BTW, if you happen to be a female or a minority with an engineering degree, any one of those companies would scoop you up way before a white candidate of equal education and experience. Tell me I'm wrong.

 

[R.Caerbannog]

As a former Lockheed contractor, you are on the right path.

Well shit. That's not good. How many of the old guys are still there? Cause if we lose their knowledge base we'll be operating with a hollowed out supply chain and industrial base.

 

[Ooh-Rah]

Please post anything regarding the Russian terror attack in the below linked thread.

Terror attack in Russia?

After we learn more, the threads may be merged.

 

[AWP]

Well shit. That's not good. How many of the old guys are still there? Cause if we lose their knowledge base we'll be operating with a hollowed out supply chain and industrial base.

That ship has sailed. Look at Boeing chasing stock revenue over safety. The companies have the knowledge, the corporate HQ cares more about the stock price than anything else. Boeing, Lockheed, GD, etc.

Lockheed sold off an entire division, billions of dollars, because it wasn't profitable. I was caught up in that mess. What's not profitable in Lockheed's eyes?

That division only made 7% per year in profit.

 

[R.Caerbannog]

That ship has sailed. Look at Boeing chasing stock revenue over safety. The companies have the knowledge, the corporate HQ cares more about the stock price than anything else. Boeing, Lockheed, GD, etc.

Lockheed sold off an entire division, billions of dollars, because it wasn't profitable. I was caught up in that mess. What's not profitable in Lockheed's eyes?

That division only made 7% per year in profit.

Fuck, I'm sorry dude. Not gonna front, that's terrifying to hear.

 

[AWP]

Fuck, I'm sorry dude. Not gonna front, that's terrifying to hear.

Thank you.

Myself and those on our contract were already moving to a new company. LM lost our contract around the time of the division sale (probably unrelated). The Missiles and Fire Control Division (IIRC) went to Leidos, while we swapped polo shirts and a payroll portal which is beyond common in contracting work.

What always stuck with me is LM decided 7% wasn't profitable enough. I don't know what small or medium sized businesses want, but imagine an individual saying a YEARLY 7% pay raise wasn't good enough.

Keep in mind, LM was probably charging the government at least double of what we made ON A COST PLUS CONTRACT. In Afghanistan my base of 180-ish k per year was billed to the gov at roughly 400k before any overtime.

I was on a contract with over 200 other shitbags. The "cheap" labor made 150 or so to start.

I don't have enough meds or "care" to do the math. We were cost plus on a 5 year contract with extensions adding another 2 years. Our cheapest guy was 150k per year before OT. 300k minimum for 7 years times 200 people at a minimum?

And we were ONE contract in a very niche field. Go lookup the LOGCAP contracts from 2001 to 2021 if you trust your blood pressure.

Digressing a bit, I can get pretty fired up over elected officials whining about the cost of border security. Or the cost to secure our schools. Or why our roads have potholes. Or...

And people wonder why we lose 22-ish vets per day to suicide? I'm sure VA funding has nothing to do with that number.

 

[Box]

Nothing is too good for the taxpayer - and that's exactly what they are going to get.

 

[R.Caerbannog]

Thank you.

Myself and those on our contract were already moving to a new company. LM lost our contract around the time of the division sale (probably unrelated). The Missiles and Fire Control Division (IIRC) went to Leidos, while we swapped polo shirts and a payroll portal which is beyond common in contracting work.

What always stuck with me is LM decided 7% wasn't profitable enough. I don't know what small or medium sized businesses want, but imagine an individual saying a YEARLY 7% pay raise wasn't good enough.

Keep in mind, LM was probably charging the government at least double of what we made ON A COST PLUS CONTRACT. In Afghanistan my base of 180-ish k per year was billed to the gov at roughly 400k before any overtime.

I was on a contract with over 200 other shitbags. The "cheap" labor made 150 or so to start.

I don't have enough meds or "care" to do the math. We were cost plus on a 5 year contract with extensions adding another 2 years. Our cheapest guy was 150k per year before OT. 300k minimum for 7 years times 200 people at a minimum?

And we were ONE contract in a very niche field. Go lookup the LOGCAP contracts from 2001 to 2021 if you trust your blood pressure.

Digressing a bit, I can get pretty fired up over elected officials whining about the cost of border security. Or the cost to secure our schools. Or why our roads have potholes. Or...

And people wonder why we lose 22-ish vets per day to suicide? I'm sure VA funding has nothing to do with that number.

In other words, not only have we paid a inordinate amount of money to conduct and maintain battlefield operations... but the companies that made bank are divesting themselves of departments that can't outpace inflation. The people that know how to engineer are retired or dead. While the replacements for the old engineers are woke DEI idiots.

It sounds like the MIC is being hollowed out and the money they took in is being funneled somewhere else. Any idea who runs and manages these companies? Cause it sounds like they're fucking up. I know we have a fuckload of orders for things, but given the cost increase in materials, personnel shortages, and the competency crisis, I don't know how they're gonna build all the shit that's on backorder.

We're seeing the Koreans enter the arms market, but I don't know how long that will last given their aging population. Not to mention their way of scooping up talent and workers here and overseas.

This is me thinking aloud, but I wonder if we're going to be ready for the next wars. Cause the MIC doesn't seem to have invested in itself and is visibly degrading.

 

[R.Caerbannog]

Nothing is too good for the taxpayer - and that's exactly what they are going to get.

Given all the money that's been made, you think those guys would pull a Hazid Karzai?

 

[AWP]

In other words, not only have we paid a inordinate amount of money to conduct and maintain battlefield operations... but the companies that made bank are divesting themselves of departments that can't outpace inflation. The people that know how to engineer are retired or dead. While the replacements for the old engineers are woke DEI idiots.

It sounds like the MIC is being hollowed out and the money they took in is being funneled somewhere else. Any idea who runs and manages these companies? Cause it sounds like they're fucking up. I know we have a fuckload of orders for things, but given the cost increase in materials, personnel shortages, and the competency crisis, I don't know how they're gonna build all the shit that's on backorder.

Lockheed's BOD: Board of Directors

A couple of retired generals, a bunch of former CEO's, and curiously...a number of former CEO's related to the energy sector. A defense company with so many ties to petroleum?

Boeing: Corporate Governance

More generals and more ties to the petroleum industry

Raytheon: Corporate Governance

The usual GO/FO mix, but this time it's invested heavily in tech sector CEOs.

Northrop: Company Leadership | Northrop Grumman

Two GO/ FO's and a lot of former CFOs

Lastly, General Dynamics: General Dynamics - Corporate Governance - Board of Directors

4 retired generals (including James Mattis), 3 US, 1 UK. An even smattering of former DoD officials, CFOs, and tech sector folks.

Those are the boards, who is really moving and shaking? Dunno.

Not for nothing, here's some financial numbers for the top 100 globally: Top 100 | Defense News, News about defense programs, business, and technology

I do find it very curious to see how the top 5 in the US have slanted their boards towards certain people or business sectors.

 

[GOTWA]

The Raytheon CEO is nothing to write home about. The interesting take is Raytheon, now known as Raytheon Technologies (RTX), was the victim of a hostile takeover by United Technologies. All of the OG Raytheon leadership was replaced as soon as UT took over...and we all paid the price. When gas was at a premium of $4.50/ga, in Tucson of all places, the average annual increase in salaries was about 1.7%. This created an extremely toxic environment and a bunch of sour employees. I was one of them. The town halls were hilarious because not a single person out of the hundreds of attendees gave a single fuck. I even told my boss the company placed profits over people and I was actively looking for new work. The problem is RTX is positioned in Tucson, with no real competition. It's mine, and others' beliefs, that this is taken into account by RTX leadership. The only way to shop your talents elsewhere is to leave the city. I'd say by and large most of the employees are local and uprooting their families isn't an option they're willing to entertain.

Greg Hayes doesn't like the violence side of business and the rumors would swirl that he was waiting to offload Raytheon Missiles and Defense to either LM or Northrop. LM already does missiles so it wouldn't likely be approved. Just so happens Northrop moved into the north side of town right before I left.

tl;dr; fuck RTX.

ETA: https://www.thelayoff.com/t/1jhNxrCk

 

[AWP]

Greg Hayes doesn't like the violence side of business and the rumors would swirl that he was waiting to offload Raytheon Missiles and Defense to either LM or Northrop. LM already does missiles so it wouldn't likely be approved. Just so happens Northrop moved into the north side of town right before I left.

I don't think people outside of the defense industry realize the mergers, acquisitions, and divestments which are a constant. One reason LM sold off Missiles and Fire Control in...2015 or 2016, was to pay for its acquisition of Sikorsky. That and my aforementioned 7%. As you're probably aware, the number of small companies which eventually sell out to the larger companies is nothing to sneeze at. That's how I became LM in 2005, the parent company I worked for was scarfed up by LM. That remained a wholly-owned subsidiary for a number of years before quietly becoming part of MFC which was then later sold to Leidos.

 

[GOTWA]

I don't think people outside of the defense industry realize the mergers, acquisitions, and divestments which are a constant. One reason LM sold off Missiles and Fire Control in...2015 or 2016, was to pay for its acquisition of Sikorsky. That and my aforementioned 7%. As you're probably aware, the number of small companies which eventually sell out to the larger companies is nothing to sneeze at. That's how I became LM in 2005, the parent company I worked for was scarfed up by LM. That remained a wholly-owned subsidiary for a number of years before quietly becoming part of MFC which was then later sold to Leidos.

I agree; unless you're a contractor, you have no idea. The amount of money the large organizations make is gross. And then those profits are not being paid out to the people that support the customers. If your position is pulling in $300/hr for the company, there is no reason you're only seeing $60/hr. $300 is probably on the low end for some positions.

 

[ThunderHorse]

Sign me up for $60/hr.

 

[GOTWA]

Sign me up for $60/hr.

Move to the DMV.

 

[Locksteady]

Move to the DMV.

@ThunderHorse upon arrival: