The Congressional Reduction of Military Pensions and Everything Thread

[RetPara]

10 years' worth of those budget cuts will mean the only countries we're capable of beating are the likes of Panama and Grenada. I know I'm a pessimist, but many of us saw the military of the 90's and this is going to be worse. Is that really in our nation's best interests?

Sonny if you think the military of the 1990's was bad... you should of served during the 1970's..... but then it was in the 1870's they let George get 5 troops of Cavalry wiped out and we had to turn in our Trapdoor Springfields... It's all been down hill since....

 

[DA SWO]

World: Send lawyers, guns, and money, the shit has hit the fan.
US DoD: We're sorry, but your call cannot be complete as dialed. Please hang up and try again.

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10 years' worth of those budget cuts will mean the only countries we're capable of beating are the likes of Panama and Grenada. I know I'm a pessimist, but many of us saw the military of the 90's and this is going to be worse. Is that really in our nation's best interests?

The left has long complained that the Military was/is too big, and we need to stop interfering in other countries affairs.

What they don't understand is that large standing force also allows us to execute Humanitarian Missions at a moments notice.

It will be interesting (in a somewhat sad way) to see what happens next time a Natural Disaster happens and it takes the navy two weeks to respond.

 

[AWP]

Sonny if you think the military of the 1990's was bad... you should of served during the 1970's..... but then it was in the 1870's they let George get 5 troops of Cavalry wiped out and we had to turn in our Trapdoor Springfields... It's all been down hill since....

I have no doubt about that, I'm only trying to speak of what I know. I've read and been told it was much, much worse for you in the 70's, but I think our country's memory barely extends to the towers falling in Sep., much less "ancient" history like Reagan or Carter.

ETA: What? No lecture on using a ramrod and pocket knife to extract soft brass from hot chambers after the lip of the cartridge was ripped off?

 

[Centermass]

USS George Washington - Mothballed

Kiowas - Phased out

Increase in SOF by 10,000 across the board

GCV - Current Prototype program scrapped

A-10 - Flip flop: Entire fleet now scrapped

U-2 - Gone

KC-10 - On the chopping block

LCS - Halts production. New design to be submitted by FY end

Only hits to personnel I heard him mentioned were Marines (20-25000) Army (60-80,00) USAR / ARNG 40-60,00 combined, AF a couple of Squadrons with plans for more BRAC's

Commissaries stay in place

AD - Pay raises stay at 1%, frozen for Flag Officers

Tax Allowance for housing affected (Can't remember the exact numbers)

Renters Ins Compensation axed

Retirees - Increased Tri Care fees

There's more, but that's what I was able to extract from the last hour.

All pending Congressional approval......

 

[racing_kitty]

It will be interesting (in a somewhat sad way) to see what happens next time a Natural Disaster happens and it takes the navy two weeks to respond.

I know I will sound cruel, heartless, and calloused in saying this (which is a natural state for me, I know), but how many of those countries that we helped out after natural disasters were all about "F**K the USA, imperialist pigs that they are," in spite of our benevolent assistance? How many of them have either implicitly or explicitly called for an end to American hegemony? How many of them are practically break dancing in the streets at the thought of such a massive draw down? Let them die. Let them see just how big of a difference we made. Let the grail of population reduction pour its poison on them. No more sympathy to be had here.

 

[CDG]

Post

Don't forget the plan to send all the Apaches to the AD Army, and all the Blackhawks to the Guard. Disaster relief is great and all that, but now you make it that much harder for Guard units, like an ASOS, to train with attack helos and become familiar with their TTPs and vice versa.

 

[AWP]

I just realized something wrong with the article. The Navy only has 10 aircraft carriers, assuming it doesn't mothball the GW as in Centermass' post. Enterprise is already being cut open, so she's done, and Gerald Ford won't be online for another 2 years. That makes for "11" aircraft carriers, but only 10 in service and possibly down to 9.

 

[Centermass]

I just realized something wrong with the article. The Navy only has 10 aircraft carriers, assuming it doesn't mothball the GW as in Centermass' post. Enterprise is already being cut open, so she's done, and Gerald Ford won't be online for another 2 years. That makes for "11" aircraft carriers, but only 10 in service and possibly down to 9.

Hagel said he was looking at a 10 Carrier based BG with no plans / funds for the GW over haul or upgrade.

 

[DA SWO]

USS George Washington - Mothballed

Kiowas - Phased out

Increase in SOF by 10,000 across the board

GCV - Current Prototype program scrapped

A-10 - Flip flop: Entire fleet now scrapped

U-2 - Gone

KC-10 - On the chopping block

LCS - Halts production. New design to be submitted by FY end

Only hits to personnel I heard him mentioned were Marines (20-25000) Army (60-80,00) USAR / ARNG 40-60,00 combined, AF a couple of Squadrons with plans for more BRAC's

Commissaries stay in place

AD - Pay raises stay at 1%, frozen for Flag Officers

Tax Allowance for housing affected (Can't remember the exact numbers)

Renters Ins Compensation axed

Retirees - Increased Tri Care fees

There's more, but that's what I was able to extract from the last hour.

All pending Congressional approval......

"Commissaries stay in place" with higher prices that will eliminate savings to the Military Population at large.

IMO Stateside Commissaries are gone in 5 years. Ironic that younger enlistees don't see this as a bennie.

 

[Brill]

USS George Washington - Mothballed

Kiowas - Phased out

Increase in SOF by 10,000 across the board

GCV - Current Prototype program scrapped

A-10 - Flip flop: Entire fleet now scrapped

U-2 - Gone

KC-10 - On the chopping block

LCS - Halts production. New design to be submitted by FY end

Only hits to personnel I heard him mentioned were Marines (20-25000) Army (60-80,00) USAR / ARNG 40-60,00 combined, AF a couple of Squadrons with plans for more BRAC's

Commissaries stay in place

AD - Pay raises stay at 1%, frozen for Flag Officers

Tax Allowance for housing affected (Can't remember the exact numbers)

Renters Ins Compensation axed

Retirees - Increased Tri Care fees

There's more, but that's what I was able to extract from the last hour.

All pending Congressional approval......

Does AQ know we're no longer at war with them? I think they didn't get the memo.

 

[Locksteady]

Link below.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/24/u...rink-army-to-pre-world-war-ii-level.html?_r=0

 

[Ranger Psych]

"Commissaries stay in place" with higher prices that will eliminate savings to the Military Population at large.

IMO Stateside Commissaries are gone in 5 years. Ironic that younger enlistees don't see this as a bennie.

Generally speaking, it isn't. It's another option for shopping, but the CA commissary had prices that were full retard compared to albertsons/safeway/nob hill/etc, the one near me in bumfuck nevada is only cheaper on 1/4 of the stuff than Walmart or Safeway. Even in Alaska, the commissary "winning" the price war only happens on half the stuff they stock.

Color me unimpressed on the AAFES/commissary system across the board for this, among many other reasons.

 

[Red Flag 1]

USS George Washington - Mothballed

Kiowas - Phased out

Increase in SOF by 10,000 across the board

GCV - Current Prototype program scrapped

A-10 - Flip flop: Entire fleet now scrapped

U-2 - Gone

KC-10 - On the chopping block

LCS - Halts production. New design to be submitted by FY end

Only hits to personnel I heard him mentioned were Marines (20-25000) Army (60-80,00) USAR / ARNG 40-60,00 combined, AF a couple of Squadrons with plans for more BRAC's

Commissaries stay in place

AD - Pay raises stay at 1%, frozen for Flag Officers

Tax Allowance for housing affected (Can't remember the exact numbers)

Renters Ins Compensation axed

Retirees - Increased Tri Care fees

There's more, but that's what I was able to extract from the last hour.

All pending Congressional approval......

Do you think Congress will consider any of this:whatever:, it will all be handled at the WH, level with a stroke of the pen @ 1600 Penn. Ave.

You can't have huge government, and a huge military at the same time, guess who wins this one .

 

[goon175]

I agree in cutting the total force down to 440-450k, but there is a right way and a wrong way to do it. If past draw downs are any evidence - they will do it the wrong way. I'm not completely sold on getting rid of the A-10's, they have saved A LOT of American lives. I guess if the F-35 is able to do the same job (I'm not well read on that platform) than I would be ok with it. Replacing the U-2 with drones makes sense, I have no issue with that. I'm not sure why the Navy needs two destroyers and two submarines per year... those aren't cheap. I would like to see the reasoning behind that one. Scratching the older helicopters are fine, but trading apaches for blackhawks doesn't make any sense whatsoever. I think i disagree with that move. The air force slowing the growth of their drone program is fine with me, as long as they are able to adequately support any possible increased work load from killing the U-2. I absolutely do not agree with cutting troop pay and benefits. Saying that they aren't cutting pay is a play on words, as it would be a cut in pay. Pay and benefits for active duty need to stay the same or increase, especially in light of how much they are cutting numbers to the over all force (more work for the guys who stay in). As far as base closings, it would depend on what bases they would be suggesting.

 

[Blizzard]

Is that time again?

 

[AWP]

Merged two threads, renamed this one.

 

[CDG]

I'm not completely sold on getting rid of the A-10's, they have saved A LOT of American lives. I guess if the F-35 is able to do the same job (I'm not well read on that platform) than I would be ok with it.Replacing the U-2 with drones makes sense

The F-35 brings nothing even close to the capabilities of the A-10 when it comes to CAS. And replacing the U-2 with drones makes a little sense, due to the small payload of the Pred and Reaper, but there's not really an advantage beyond that.

 

[Centermass]

The F-35 brings nothing even close to the capabilities of the A-10 when it comes to CAS.

Guess they never asked those who ever needed CAS, not that they ever needed it, otherwise, they would have scrapped the F-35 and continued funding the A-10.

More proof that those on the ground are miles away from being heard by those at the top.....

 

[Salt USMC]

I know I will sound cruel, heartless, and calloused in saying this (which is a natural state for me, I know), but how many of those countries that we helped out after natural disasters were all about "F**K the USA, imperialist pigs that they are," in spite of our benevolent assistance? How many of them have either implicitly or explicitly called for an end to American hegemony? How many of them are practically break dancing in the streets at the thought of such a massive draw down? Let them die. Let them see just how big of a difference we made. Let the grail of population reduction pour its poison on them. No more sympathy to be had here.

Not doing anything has more repercussions than are immediately apparent. If the situation is bad enough, neighboring countries will have to deal with refugees, disease, and possibly famine. And it's totally preventable when we have a MEU on standby.

As for countries who were all "Death to America" after we bailed them out, the only one I can think of offhand is Pakistan.

 

[talonlm]

CAS is great--so long as you own the airspace the CAS bird is operating in. Keeping the skies clear of enemy air remains the primary job of the Air Force. The F-35 is out there to replace the F-16s and F-18s. While CAS has always been an important mission for the Air Force, it is not the only mission. First and foremost has always been Air Superiority if not outright Air Dominance. It's been sixty years since an enemy aircraft actually succeeded in killing US troops on the ground (not counting 9/11) and that was not a coordinated campaign against us. And that's because the US made a concerted effort to destroy the enemy's air force before they could hit us. You don't do that with a collection of aircraft dedicated to nothing but CAS.

Most of the decisions made about weapons procurement are meant to be about future wars, not the ones we fight today. The big concern nowadays is about China and the so-called "Pacific Pivot." China's PLAAF is not the same air force it was just ten years ago, and they're growing their capabilities every day. To underestimate their ability would be a big mistake. We're not dealing with the Soviet Union, yet, but the potential is definitely there.

While getting rid of the A-10 before the F-35 is fully tested is, in my mind, as huge mistake, the powers that be are counting dollars, not the lives it could well cost to mothball the platform. And, to be honest, the idea to me smacks of the AF playing politics by using the AF Guard to get congress to do what they want. "Give us more money or these fifteen states will lose this many jobs!" Will the A-10 get sent to the Boneyard? Sooner or later, sure. But my money will be on "later."