The worlds newest army

CQB

CQB

Australian SOF
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A pretty sound idea given Russia has designs on the Baltic (IMO)

EUROPEAN Commission chief Jean-Claude Juncker has called for the creation of an EU army in the wake of rising tensions with Russia.

Juncker said the force could help counter new threats beyond the bloc’s borders and defend European “values”, in an interview with Germany’s Welt am Sonntag newspaper.

“You would not create a European army to use it immediately,” he was quoted as saying.

“But a common army among the Europeans would convey to Russia that we are serious about defending the values of the European Union.”

http://mobile.news.com.au/technolog...alls-for-eu-army/story-fnpjxnlk-1227257460341
 
Actions speak louder than words. While I think this would be a fantastic development, I am not so naive as to think this would happen anytime soon or with any appreciable effectiveness. In fact, I'm leaning more towards "Hi, goat. Here's a rope. You know what to do."
 
NEVER HAPPEN.

Who will command it? Politically and Militarily? A country is going to allow people of all ranks to jump ship to join this new force? On TDY or swear a new allegiance entirely? Who will allow their citizens to serve in an Army that is not their own?
Sure there is precedent with the Spanish and French Foreign Legions but I'd be very surprised to see it happen.
Who's going to fund it? Does Germany who pays 60% of the cost, get more say in it's deployment than say Greece, who will pay sometime in the future if things work out... maybe.
The Greeks (for example) will flood the EU Army to make money from it, just the Fijian's have been doing for years with the UN.

Besides, what difference is there to this than NATO that at least has some logistics (thanks to the USA) to actually fight outside of the EU borders?

The Germans would be better off re-introducing conscription and seeking foreign volunteers.

Again... :-"

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pardus said:
NEVER HAPPEN.

Who will command it? Politically and Militarily? A country is going to allow people of all ranks to jump ship to join this new force? On TDY or swear a new allegiance entirely? Who will allow their citizens to serve in an Army that is not their own?
Sure there is precedent with the Spanish and French Foreign Legions but I'd be very surprised to see it happen.
Who's going to fund it? Does Germany who pays 60% of the cost, get more say in it's deployment than say Greece, who will pay sometime in the future if things work out... maybe.
The Greeks (for example) will flood the EU Army to make money from it, just the Fijian's have been doing for years with the UN.
Click to expand...

The bold is exactly what came to mind - who commits to this and who gets to call the shots? What exactly is the criteria to commit forces? I see this easily getting stalemated when there isn't a unanimous decision or when the costs for certain countries get to be too high.
 
So they want NATO without the US involved?

That sound you hear is me laughing. Hysterically.

pardus makes some great points, but the article makes it sound like....well, NATO without the whole "North American" thing. If you start talking about citizens from the EU nations enlisting into some common army...that's just insane which is the same as this argument: insane. I guess Europe's military involvement, or lack thereof, since the end of the Cold War was forgotten.

It looks like the Good Idea Fairy is spending this spring in Europe.
 
Pretty nutty idea. Jean-Claude Junker must be smoking some especially strong crack if he thinks the Russians would be scared or intimidated by the threat of an EU Army without American military might to back it up.
 
Europe doesn't go to war without the US behind them. Simples.

Anyone who tries to act like that's not the reality of the situation, is talking utter shite.
 
This briefs well but Europe can't afford the kind of military it would need to go it alone against Russia or any other major player. Many of the EU nations don't pay what they are supposed to for defense right now, and we expect them to pay more? How are the going to fund all of their social programs if they're not partially free riding on American-provided security?
 
The most ironic thing is that some of the same countries that call America out for trying to play world police are the first ones to look over their shoulder and make sure we're standing there before they do anything militarily.
 
CDG said:
The most ironic thing is that some of the same countries that call America out for trying to play world police are the first ones to look over their shoulder and make sure we're standing there before they do anything militarily.
Click to expand...

For every asshole European there's his counterpart in America and while there are plenty of good guys we forget there's no shortage of assholes we remember. I've worked with the Germans a little over here and by and large they are good folks. We did meet one O-6 that perfectly your post. We hosted/ dog and pony show, an ISAF delegation that was looking into C2 upgrades for Afghanistan. The group was led by a German O-6, his eputy was an O-5 US Naval Aviator, and the Major and Captain equivilents were from the RAF, Canadian Air Force, Dutch Air Force, some French pilot, and one or two others.

We went through our routine and my boss, a USAF O-5 pointed out that I had more experience with that Afghan mission than anyone in the room and would I like to share my thoughts. Um...yes, Sir. When I finished the German was bright red and I expected the Downfall bunker scene. What we received was a lecture on how to run a war which contained something like "You Americans need to provide the funds and leave me alone so I can build the network you need. You don't understand what you need and I can't help you until you fund this project." The US, UK, and CAN reps were mortified while the Dutch officer and others looked at their shoes and the Frenchman had a shit eating grin on his face.

They left and we never paid for it. The RAF did and they owned it, no German required.

I've wondered how that one conversation reflected their nations' attitude.
 
CQB said:
Africa has a model, I'm tyre kicking, but it's not in the realm of impossible.
Click to expand...

Shitty model, and if they wish to be held as even somewhat serious, they need to vastly increase their budget and capability. As they stand right now, the EU is pathetic militarily.
 
Freefalling said:
For every asshole European there's his counterpart in America and while there are plenty of good guys we forget there's no shortage of assholes we remember. I've worked with the Germans a little over here and by and large they are good folks. We did meet one O-6 that perfectly your post. We hosted/ dog and pony show, an ISAF delegation that was looking into C2 upgrades for Afghanistan. The group was led by a German O-6, his eputy was an O-5 US Naval Aviator, and the Major and Captain equivilents were from the RAF, Canadian Air Force, Dutch Air Force, some French pilot, and one or two others.

We went through our routine and my boss, a USAF O-5 pointed out that I had more experience with that Afghan mission than anyone in the room and would I like to share my thoughts. Um...yes, Sir. When I finished the German was bright red and I expected the Downfall bunker scene. What we received was a lecture on how to run a war which contained something like "You Americans need to provide the funds and leave me alone so I can build the network you need. You don't understand what you need and I can't help you until you fund this project." The US, UK, and CAN reps were mortified while the Dutch officer and others looked at their shoes and the Frenchman had a shit eating grin on his face.

They left and we never paid for it. The RAF did and they owned it, no German required.

I've wondered how that one conversation reflected their nations' attitude.
Click to expand...
This mirrors my experience in Bosnia and Kosovo.
 
Many nations field excellent fighters. Far fewer have much in the way of intel or logistics. And NONE of them can put it all together like the Americans.
 
Marauder06 said:
Many nations field excellent fighters. Far fewer have much in the way of intel or logistics. And NONE of them can put it all together like the Americans.
Click to expand...

What's that saying? Amateurs talk tactics while professionals talk logistics? I have a feeling that whether it's Europe, Arab states, or Africa, any military "union" will be throwing us a "Hey bro, can we get a couple tankers? And some trucks, and ships, and maybe automated logistics software with some SMEs? Oh yeah, and can you throw in some troops to teach us all this shit? You know what, nevermind, can you guys just handle ALL the logistics for us, but then we'll take credit for all the successes and blame you for the failures? Cool."
 
Marauder06 said:
Many nations field excellent fighters. Far fewer have much in the way of intel or logistics. And NONE of them can put it all together like the Americans.
Click to expand...

Agree. It also took us a couple of world wars, a neverending GWOT, four decades of a Cold War, a bunch of "others," and a metric crapload of money. That isn't to say others can't learn from us with a greatly reduced cost/ time penalty to themselves, but they have a ways to go. If they wanted, they could pull it together in a few years, the UAE has the coin if it so desires, but politics will falcon punch this dream long before poor logistics or planning.
 
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