Transforming the Infantry

[BloodStripe]

No Grunts Under 26, $250K Bonuses: DoD's Most Radical Ideas to Transform the Infantry

Seems like an interesting concept, but also seems like they are keeping the focus on CEVO. At some point we need to actually look at the NDS and realize that this won't actually be possible. We will need the 18 to whatever year olds to carry the weight of this nation in a complex global environment. With this strategy that won't be possible.

 

[Marauder06]

No Grunts Under 26, $250K Bonuses: DoD's Most Radical Ideas to Transform the Infantry

Seems like an interesting concept, but also seems like they are keeping the focus on CEVO. At some point we need to actually look at the NDS and realize that this won't actually be possible. We will need the 18 to whatever year olds to carry the weight of this nation in a complex global environment. With this strategy that won't be possible.

The article is more Scales nonsense. As with the black beret decision made by a different General in a different era, too many people are looking at SOF and drawing the wrong lessons for the conventional force.

The general purpose force is doing just fine with 18 to 25 year olds in the Infantry.

 

[R.Caerbannog]

The good idea fairy strikes again! Not recent on how/if things have changed, but lighter comms, gear, and less big army fuck-fuck games might be better. Also not sure if this is relevant anymore, but toxic command staff, corruption, cronyism, and staff politics tend to fuck over the average grunt as much as any enemy.

Throwing money at the problem and trying to turn the infantry into SOF isn't gonna solve anything. I'm probably out of my lane, but this reeks of Ossifers just trying to get another 'sparkly bullet point' for their OER.

 

[Topkick]

I'm probably out of my lane, but this reeks of Ossifers just trying to get another 'sparkly bullet point' for their OER.

The good idea fairy strikes again!

Psst...the real good idea fairy is actually a CSM.

 

[R.Caerbannog]

Psst...the real good idea fairy is actually a CSM.

Awww man... so it was the CSM that crafted the SHARP PP's that told us we were all rapers and wife beaters? I thought the CSM was one of us!

 

[Topkick]

Awww man... so it was the CSM that crafted the SHARP PP's that told us we were all rapers and wife beaters? I thought the CSM was one of us!

I don't know too many Ossifers who really care if the rocks in front of HQ have a fresh coat of paint.

 

[AWP]

Our military does a pretty good job at taking a bag of dicks and turning it into a box of hammers. Those 'teen/ early 20's "kids" have no problem being led or doing their jobs given the proper leaders. If anything, we should look at how we're creating officers and senior NCO's.

We have never lost a war because the 18-26 demographic couldn't do their jobs.

but lighter comms, gear,...

Find a way to take 10 lbs. off a soldier's load and the Army/ Marines will find a way to add 10 lbs. of ammo or whatever. Look at the weight saved from an M-16A2 to a stock M-4...and then how we made the M4 heavier with all of the attachments. We'll take the saved weight and add it back for lethality, which sounds great but does nothing for your knees, back, bones, skin....okay, your entire body. That beast will be there until the end of time.

 

[BloodStripe]

SOF right now is just the flavor of the week (past two decades) because they are taking the lead on the GWOT. Once we go peer to peer, the 03/11 series MOS's will be king again solely because there won't be enough SOF warriors around to carry the brunt of the weight and this concept will quickly fade to black.

 

[GOTWA]

Throwing money at a problem won't fix a problem. I left AD Infantry because of toxic leadership. I left the Guard Infantry because of the lack of leadership. In the Guard I was threatened with an Article 15 for disobeying a direct order to NOT shoot from the standing while moving and clearing an objective during a blank fire run. You know, doctrine type shit. How you make it 18 years into GWOT and still can't train people to be effective and trustworthy in their craft is beyond me.

 

[R.Caerbannog]

If anything, we should look at how we're creating officers and senior NCO's.

Competent NCO's and Officers are worth their weight in gold.

Find a way to take 10 lbs. off a soldier's load and the Army/ Marines will find a way to add 10 lbs. of ammo or whatever. Look at the weight saved from an M-16A2 to a stock M-4...and then how we made the M4 heavier with all of the attachments. We'll take the saved weight and add it back for lethality, which sounds great but does nothing for your knees, back, bones, skin....okay, your entire body. That beast will be there until the end of time.

I get what you're saying, the riddle of the beast of burden.

Honestly don't think that the DoD and Defense Contractors, making all the fancy gear/integrated systems, are paying attention to how overloaded the common grunt is. We can make improvements to training, nutrition, and leadership, but when Joe is struggling or is gonna be broke by lugging the essentials something's wrong. It's kinda like the brass and their congressional sponsors are putting all the eggs into the multi-billion defense project behemoths, while saying fuck you to the little guy, in the name of doctrine.

When it comes to acquisitions, supply, and physical rehabilitation/medical care, there is straight up corruption, graft, and cronyism at the highest/lowest levels. If the DoD wants to 'improve' the infantry, they need to take a good hard look at themselves and figure out why their fingertips are rotting off and their wallet is constantly empty.

Add on: Not trying to sound snarky at you or anything, just expressing my distaste for how the DoD treats the Infantry.

 

[BloodStripe]

Honestly don't think that the DoD and Defense Contractors, making all the fancy gear/integrated systems, are paying attention to how overloaded the common grunt is. We can make improvements to training, nutrition, and leadership, but when Joe is struggling or is gonna be broke by lugging the essentials something's wrong. It's kinda like the brass and their congressional sponsors are putting all the eggs into the multi-billion defense project behemoths, while saying fuck you to the little guy, in the name of doctrine.

When it comes to acquisitions, supply, and physical rehabilitation/medical care, there is straight up corruption, graft, and cronyism at the highest/lowest levels. If the DoD wants to 'improve' the infantry, they need to take a good hard look at themselves and figure out why their fingertips are rotting off and their wallet is constantly empty.

Not sure that contractors should have to care how over or under loaded up Joe is. We the Government tell them what we want and they deliver what we ask for.

As far as corruption in the acquisition process, it's probably way lower than you think. Yes there are some high profile gaffes, such as Fat Leonard, but DoD is the largest buyer of goods and services in the US and probably the world.

 

[R.Caerbannog]

Not sure that contractors should have to care how over or under loaded up Joe is. We the Government tell them what we want and they deliver what we ask for.

As far as corruption in the acquisition process, it's probably way lower than you think. Yes there are some high profile gaffes, such as Fat Leonard, but DoD is the largest buyer of goods and services in the US and probably the world.

That's the thing though, the government and it's employees don't always know what to ask for; when they do get it right sometimes it's: 'too little, too late' or 'here's 50!'. As for contractors caring about weight, we all know that capitalism rocks, but crony capitalism seems to be the way the DoD rolls. If there is no competition, why should contractors care about weight and energy requirements for a piece of gear as long as it's within specs? They ain't gonna hump it or the batteries.

Again not trying to shit on anyone.

 

[BloodStripe]

That's the thing though, the government and it's employees don't always know what to ask for; when they do get it right sometimes it's: 'too little, too late' or 'here's 50!'. As for contractors caring about weight, we all know that capitalism rocks, but crony capitalism seems to be the way the DoD rolls. If there is no competition, why should contractors care about weight and energy requirements for a piece of gear as long as it's within specs? They ain't gonna hump it or the batteries.

Again not trying to shit on anyone.

We the Government have the right to reject anything that we receive if it doesn't meet our requirements, to include weight. We put out what we are looking for and vendors come back with pricing. I've never seen an unsolicited proposal awarded (doesn't mean it doesn't happen though as there is a paragraph in the FAR about it). And yes, sole source environments suck. We can only get certified cost or pricing when TINA is applicable.

I think you might be surprised at what the average profit percentage is on a DOD contract vs what it is in the private sector where there is no where near the rules for acquisition.

 

[Gunz]

Most of those 18-year-olds are 19 by the time they finish training or deploy. You need young grunts. Their backs are strong, they recover faster and they're high on their own imperishability.

I had a 27-year-old guy in my weapons platoon squad. We called him "Pappy."

 

[AWP]

I think when it comes to the development of new weapons accessories, the lights, optics, grips, lasers, etc., we overlook the influence carried by the nation's SMU's and other SOF units, and their relationships with various manufacturers. I think the same goes for the tactical nylon out there. Higher end stuff? No idea how that works, but at the "rifleman" level? Big Infantry isn't leading that charge...

 

[MikeDelta]

Targeting 26+ year old men and backing that up with more money than 80% of them will see in civilian life (at least at that point in their life) is an interesting strategy. People who have an undergraduate degree, a mountain of debt and are in their first real job, they they hate...That very well may end up being the target market segment for recruiters. But, we’re talkin infantry. If they never aspired to be a soldier, that desk job is going to start looking real good either right after they get off the bus, or sometime at Ft. Benning and that brings me to morale and esprit de corp...How will this be affected by a bunch of people who joined primarily for the money? How many infantry joined for money on this forum? My guess would be zero.

I think the Army translation of “more experienced” means people who can’t hack civilian life at 26, which is clearly not the mentality that one needs in the infantry. Despite the fact that quite a few people came from the ‘go to war or go to jail’ type situation during my time, and the Army was a way to escape. But that is something you do when you’re 18, not 26.

It’s certainly a lead generator for recruiters, but it just doesn’t seem to be the right answer.

 

[Centermass]

Leave the current demographic as it stands.

With that said, take a lot of the red tape, out of the process for those vets (Who fall into the "Older" category) looking to come back in and on board into the combat arms side of the house.

 

[Viper1]

No Grunts Under 26, $250K Bonuses: DoD's Most Radical Ideas to Transform the Infantry

Seems like an interesting concept, but also seems like they are keeping the focus on CEVO. At some point we need to actually look at the NDS and realize that this won't actually be possible. We will need the 18 to whatever year olds to carry the weight of this nation in a complex global environment. With this strategy that won't be possible.

War is, and always will be, a young man's endeavor.

 

[BlackSmokeRisinG]

A $250,000 bonus sounds awfully good right now! We all know that part would never happen...

 

[R.Caerbannog]

We the Government have the right to reject anything that we receive if it doesn't meet our requirements, to include weight. We put out what we are looking for and vendors come back with pricing. I've never seen an unsolicited proposal awarded (doesn't mean it doesn't happen though as there is a paragraph in the FAR about it). And yes, sole source environments suck. We can only get certified cost or pricing when TINA is applicable.

I think you might be surprised at what the average profit percentage is on a DOD contract vs what it is in the private sector where there is no where near the rules for acquisition.

Honestly, I'm way out of my knowledge base when it comes to how the DoD and Big Army solicit contracts. What I have seen is a buttload of waste on big ticket items, while basic kit and armament is cobbled together from spare parts or is non/barely-functional. After seeing so much waste and mismanagement, I think the DoD and Big Army can be better at leading and equipping the Infantry.

Example -
DoD/supply/etc : Heya grunts! Here are 100 MRAPS. Oh... but we can't do much about the cobbled together 240's, SAW's with warped receivers, non-functional lasers, worn out gloves/pants, etc. If you're hungry we have steaks, lobster, and artisanal coffee at the nearest FOB though.

Grunt: Uh...

DoD/supply/ect : Also, please stop cavorting off with our supply of sundries and snacks during your visits. We know we've been feeding you Pop-Tarts and expired Pancake Heater Meals, but nevertheless please behave like civilized human beings and respect our property.