Using whatever logic you wish, and in as much detail as you want, explain what the word "veteran" means in a military context.
What does the word "veteran" mean?
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HOLLiS
Verified Military
Someone who served in the Armed Forces. IMHO, it is sort of a blanket term. I don't time served or what their discharge was is much of a part of it.
I tend to think of it as someone who served in the Armed Forces and was assigned a MOS. They type of discharge after completing training don't factor much into things, unless you want to include it as a disclaimer (honorably discharged veteran, dishonorably discharged veteran) . I don't really consider anyone who didn't make it through basic/boot as one. My ex brother in law washed out of Marine Corps boot and is not a veteran in my eyes. It was fun watching him talk about "his time in the Corps" until RP walked into the room...lol
Combat veterans are a different class and are self explanatory.
Combat veterans are a different class and are self explanatory.
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Agree 99%. The only alteration your definition has from mine is that I would qualify "served" as someone who has graduated from AIT (or the equivalent).
HOLLiS
Verified Military
OK I will agree to 99.5% (agreement war is on). What happens to Private Jones who is injured during boot or AIT or equivalent and is medically forced out of the service?
Over here it generally means someone who has served overseas but it's a term in disuse really- I've only really heard it applied to Vietnam and before returned servicemen.
181 days (or more) of service.
or
Someone who has completed AIT/Pipeline/etc.
or
Someone who has completed AIT/Pipeline/etc.
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Someone who has served in the Armed Forces and has a Honorable Discharge.
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In my view, IET Soldiers are training to serve, rather than conducting the service itself.
The issue of IET release is a complicated one (whether it be from injury, other medical issues that come up, or the myriad of other reasons) I don't have a "good" answer for. If your question is whether or not PVT Jones should be eligible for benefits, that comes down to which benefits and the circumstances of separation. But would I would bestow him/her with the title of "Veteran"? No.
I'll have to agree with the others, with qualifications. Any person that has completed Basic, AIT, been assigned to a unit, and either completed an enlistment honorably, or been discharged medically. A Combat Veteran has to have served in a combat zone.
Regarding MC's mention of my SIL's Ex? Yeah, that little shit shut up pretty quick. Was actually comical, he was prattling on about ra ra Corps ra ra Boot and literally shut up tighter than a fucking lug nut after an overzealous mechanic.
For me, it's simple. Honorably discharged, regardless of duration of service.
Anything other.... well, it ain't exactly easy to get a general or anything lower, and any UN-characterized discharge from failure to complete training gets you VA benefits if you got jacked up enough, but it's nothing more than a thanks-for-coming in my opinion.
For me, it's simple. Honorably discharged, regardless of duration of service.
Anything other.... well, it ain't exactly easy to get a general or anything lower, and any UN-characterized discharge from failure to complete training gets you VA benefits if you got jacked up enough, but it's nothing more than a thanks-for-coming in my opinion.
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99% of the time I'd say "with an MOS/ AFSC/ Rate." The other 1% are those rare cases who were physically injured during their IET. I'm talking about guys who are shot or fall off a tower or something...directly injured because of the training. That's a small, small percentage but worthy of an explanation. Given the number of frauds walking around today, personally I'd be very skeptical of such claims.
HOLLiS
Verified Military
Thanks, something I never really tho
The frauds are a problem. IIRC if you have 13 people telling you that they served in Viet-Nam, the odds is that only one did. I don't think it is done for people who are in the military, but for civilians. First it was Door gunners, then being a combat vet was enough. Then Viet-Nam vet meant the same, then SEA vet, then Viet-Nam era vet. I think the heck with the frauds. IF we worry too much about who is who, it can lead to a witch hunt mentality, which it has. A person claiming Vet status is not saying he/she was a door gunner on the Space Shuttle, just that they served. Maybe that want the 10% off at Home Depot or Lowes or that free meal at Applebees on Nov. 11.
Freefalling I am like you, skeptical.
I think the best story that sort of explains why this happens. Gunny Halfcock was giving a talk in California. After a person asks the Gunny, "Do you want to meet Clint Eastwood?" Gunny responded, "Who is he, how many men did he kill". Nothing against Clint, but he played a role.. so maybe the wannabes think the same. I am just playing a role.
The good thing is, It is better to be a Vet today than in the 70's and 80's.
The frauds are a problem. IIRC if you have 13 people telling you that they served in Viet-Nam, the odds is that only one did. I don't think it is done for people who are in the military, but for civilians. First it was Door gunners, then being a combat vet was enough. Then Viet-Nam vet meant the same, then SEA vet, then Viet-Nam era vet. I think the heck with the frauds. IF we worry too much about who is who, it can lead to a witch hunt mentality, which it has. A person claiming Vet status is not saying he/she was a door gunner on the Space Shuttle, just that they served. Maybe that want the 10% off at Home Depot or Lowes or that free meal at Applebees on Nov. 11.
Freefalling I am like you, skeptical.
I think the best story that sort of explains why this happens. Gunny Halfcock was giving a talk in California. After a person asks the Gunny, "Do you want to meet Clint Eastwood?" Gunny responded, "Who is he, how many men did he kill". Nothing against Clint, but he played a role.. so maybe the wannabes think the same. I am just playing a role.
The good thing is, It is better to be a Vet today than in the 70's and 80's.
Like NZ a veteran is someone who has served overseas on operations.
RetPara
SOF Support
So... by that logic if you injured your back (40% + with fused vertabrae) during the final phase of SSDG Primary Training because you allowed yourself to be thrown out of your Shuttle's Door Gunners Station while the craft was performing sub-light maneuvers to avoid simulated Klingon fire.... you would be a Veteran?
Not if you were at fault. I'm pretty sure there's a safety gram out there about wearing your harness while in the shuttle.
RetPara
SOF Support
There is a Air & Space Safety Notice on the potential failure of the M862 Pressure Suit Hard Attachment points for the M328 Space Shuttle Door Gunner Safety Straps. There is a requirement for the Aircrew Safety Engineers to stress test each of the hard points to 850 Kilos since the stress on the four hard point links to the internal suit harness can can exceed 500 kilos when the SS is performing sub light, evasive maneuvers. The ASSN also requires the testing of each strap to 850 Kilos also. The ASSN was sent out after two SSDG's in primary training had strap failures and one hard point failure while attempting to maintain target lock while the SS was performing an Immelmann combined with a Scissors. The involved trainees went into null weight situation then receiving a 4G stress that left them hanging loose along the external skin of the SS involved with only one or two straps still connected.
Freefalling.... you really need to keep up on your publications son.....
Bro, you forgot to add the new notice that only the braided unobtanium strap/harness combination in fluorescent green with reflective threads in the braid (M238-A4-E5,Mod7, Mark19) are authorized for use after 12 May, due to the issues with strap breakage from wear on the newly reinforced hard points on the suits and the new structure lock points for attachment to the Shuttle frame, and they can be used as a PT belt when on the flight line and in the Death Star.
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My wife always gives me hell when I talk about artists/athletes/actors... I give a similar response in how they are pretending or playing a game for a living.
-How many rappers have shot someone?
--How many actors have actually been in said situations?
-Pro athletes are still doing what I did for fun in middle school- turns out, sports were just there to prepare me for life (SOF).
