Brill
SOF Support
What will happen now, Lindy?
I received my gear and then some. We actually have better equipment (not as beat up) as the AD guys and even have nicer "toys".
Your Experiences With "Toxic Leaders"
- Thread starter Marauder06
- Start date
I received my gear and then some. We actually have better equipment (not as beat up) as the AD guys and even have nicer "toys".
Brill
SOF Support
In my civilian job, we have an O-5 who is a textbook Army definition of a toxic leader as defined by:
U.S. Army War College faculty and students stated that toxic leaders “are focused on visible short-term mission accomplishment ... provide superiors with impressive, articulate presentations and enthusiastic responses to missions... [but] are unconcerned about, or oblivious to, staff or troop morale and/or climate ... [and] are seen by the majority of subordinates as arrogant, self-serving, inflexible, and petty.”
Latest samples:
We compiled a small team to work a short-term task and the O-5 was unhappy because he couldn't see them (I just put them at open desks but he wanted eyes on). The team leader recently had surgery and I'm not sure if he is even aware but the O-5 has NOT contacted the TL to check up.
The weekly intel briefs are about as accurate as I am linked to Kevin Bacon.
Morale is in the shitter. The military guys are stuck but the 5 civilians are:
changing offices, PCSing, volunteered for 120-deployment, and then there's me...I was selected for a different job BUT due to the widespread fleeing of the civ workforce (subject matter experts), the O-5 stated that he will put my departure on hold.
At least one civ has had an exit interview with the O-6 commander and deputy (GS-15) and it reportedly didn't go well. The COL and the GS-15responded "there's not much I can do". Not sure if there's confusion over CAN vs WILL.
Question before the board:
What can WE (civ and mil) do at the grass roots level? If you were a Senior Enlisted Leader, would you interpret a civilian addressing military leadership problems as ok or as butting into military business?
I am going to recommend a sensing sessions and a climate survey at least but the senior leadership is WAY out of touch with what's going on because the O-5 micromanages the shit out of anything going up. The guy is out of his comfort zone and doesn't understand (or care to learn) our skillset or mission. I'm so tired of hearing him say "metrics".
U.S. Army War College faculty and students stated that toxic leaders “are focused on visible short-term mission accomplishment ... provide superiors with impressive, articulate presentations and enthusiastic responses to missions... [but] are unconcerned about, or oblivious to, staff or troop morale and/or climate ... [and] are seen by the majority of subordinates as arrogant, self-serving, inflexible, and petty.”
Latest samples:
We compiled a small team to work a short-term task and the O-5 was unhappy because he couldn't see them (I just put them at open desks but he wanted eyes on). The team leader recently had surgery and I'm not sure if he is even aware but the O-5 has NOT contacted the TL to check up.
The weekly intel briefs are about as accurate as I am linked to Kevin Bacon.
Morale is in the shitter. The military guys are stuck but the 5 civilians are:
changing offices, PCSing, volunteered for 120-deployment, and then there's me...I was selected for a different job BUT due to the widespread fleeing of the civ workforce (subject matter experts), the O-5 stated that he will put my departure on hold.
At least one civ has had an exit interview with the O-6 commander and deputy (GS-15) and it reportedly didn't go well. The COL and the GS-15responded "there's not much I can do". Not sure if there's confusion over CAN vs WILL.
Question before the board:
What can WE (civ and mil) do at the grass roots level? If you were a Senior Enlisted Leader, would you interpret a civilian addressing military leadership problems as ok or as butting into military business?
I am going to recommend a sensing sessions and a climate survey at least but the senior leadership is WAY out of touch with what's going on because the O-5 micromanages the shit out of anything going up. The guy is out of his comfort zone and doesn't understand (or care to learn) our skillset or mission. I'm so tired of hearing him say "metrics".
You can file an IG report stating he is toxic and the Bde Cdr won't do anything about it, but the IG complaint has to have specific examples. Part of the complaint can state he won't let you move to a new job because everyone else has fled his command.
Brill
SOF Support
Unfortunately I may have to go that route for a DIFFERENT issue (wasn't even reviewed or considered for promo last year due to mobilization and is contrary to Federal law as well as local policy).
xGenoSiide
SOF Support
I am fortunate enough to have not had a leader as bad as you describe, although a previous commander was a big fan of micromanagement, to the point of having patrols at certain locations at certain times with blocked lunches. In theory, a good idea, but with a set time for everything during a 12 hour shift, the slightest incident can throw off everything.
Brill
SOF Support
So questioning the validity of OB GYN appointments and demanding proof of said appointments (for female officers), is that tolerated in today's Army?
How about being so hostile to female civilian employees that they openly cry? Again, ok today?
How about being so hostile to female civilian employees that they openly cry? Again, ok today?
Proof they went should be enough, why they needed to go is a HPPA vilation and the Female Officer should report it as such.So questioning the validity of OB GYN appointments and demanding proof of said appointments (for female officers), is that tolerated in today's Army?
How about being so hostile to female civilian employees that they openly cry? Again, ok today?
I am sorry if this has been covered as I did not want to go back and read all the pages, but this is the first I have heard of the military going to a 360 performance review. Has it been instituted yet? From what I found through a quick Google search, all the articles date back to 2013 (except this but I have no CAC card http://msaf.army.mil/LeadOn.aspx). I know the military moves at molasses pace in implementing new ideas, but I think that is a great way for a leader to improve on their leadership skills. I know the military is very vertical organization, but in no other work place does the cohesiveness of a unit have such an impact on the overall success of a mission as exists in the military. If I hate my boss, I get to do home at the end of the day and forget about him or her. In the military though, you can live with that person 24/7/365. It is imperative that leadership is great. That obviously does not mean buddy buddy with lower rank (I am speaking strictly conventional here), but once a leader loses the respect of those below them, it is damned near impossible for them to gain it back.
I've done three MSAF 360 reviews and there are certain flaws in the system. Maybe it's an article for publication idea (have at it all), but this is just from where I sit as an O-3.
Positives
1) It covers a lot of good stuff, including spaces for specific comments about what to sustain and what to improve.
2) It's quick and easy to use. The Army did not throw away user efficiency in this survey, thank goodness.
3) It can be done at the unit and individual level.
4) It offers opportunities for one-on-one mentorship about your 360 degree review results and how to improve (disclaimer: I have not taken advantage of this yet)
5) You have to pick at least 5 superiors, ten peers, and ten subordinates.
Areas to Improve
1) It isn't a mandatory yearly requirement. It can get put on an officer's OER or an NCOER but so far, there isn't a push to ensure compliance. O-4's and Commander's should be especially required to fill this out with maximum participation from their subordinates. The yearly "command climate survey" doesn't cut it.
2) Only 40% of the total have to respond to make survey results. You can see where this can lead to skewed results.
3) There is no way to enforce compliance to fill out the survey on someone, e.g. if someone requests that I fill out a survey, there is no system to ensure that I actually do fill it out.
4) It's subjective rather than objective.
5) Like point #1, there is no requirement to use the one-on-one mentorship tool once you receive survey results.
USMA used a 360 degree review system all years I was there and I believe it still goes on. As a cadet, I had to rate every single one of my peers with tangible comments to tangible questions and assign them a "grade" (think the Army OER system with center mass, above center mass, etc). I was also required to rate five subordinates and five superiors. We were also required to rate the company cadet staff. This was used as tangible results for military grades from the TACs. Instructors were required to rate cadets as well. I still have all those reports filed at the house, nine years after my cadets days were over.
My 2 cents.
Thank you for the respone.
Most of the really good companies I've worked for since leaving the military have used 360 reviews... and they work pretty well as long as people are honest and are not harboring vendettas. Compiling the narrative portions can be a bear, very resource and manpower intensive.
Brill
SOF Support
I think federal agencies would benefit from a review like this. The "gimme the top three, bottom three" work for a reason, either to validate the next supervisors opinion or open their eyes to unseen problems.
It seems that mil vs civ leadership are missing that mark that effective leadership, which retains good employees, is just as important to the bottom line as the bottom line! People don't quit their jobs...they quit their boss.
Command climate surveys, when done properly, can act as a 360 review.
I had a boss while in Publishing, the CFO actually, who did my 360... It's not bad when your 'senior raters' are the Div Pres, the CFO, and Sr VP of Sales and you deal with them on regular and ad-hoc projects on a daily basis... throw in my boss figured that my 'peers' were the VP of Business Analysis (IT guy), VP of Production, A SR Financial Analyst, and the Director of Inventory Planning and I was only a Sr Financial Analyst.
Because in this company, your immediate boss sat down to get the list to people who worked at the same level of influence to the goals of the company as the 'rated' employee for next level up and peer... he only had to know who the 5 subordinate or influenced people I chose were and make sure I actually worked closely with them.
He got a good view of where I stood in the great scheme of his team... I did pretty well that year, and all the other years I held that position.
I'd probably still be with that company if I hadn't been part of the MA&D team that was tasked with selling to a competitor and staying within Robinson-Patman Antitrust statutes, Sarbanes-Oxley rules, meaning I had to figure which franchises (text book families/ series) needed to be diversified in auction to other competitors first so that total market share (by volume and revenue) was below 51.3% of total market by Subject grouping... I'll stop now.
Because in this company, your immediate boss sat down to get the list to people who worked at the same level of influence to the goals of the company as the 'rated' employee for next level up and peer... he only had to know who the 5 subordinate or influenced people I chose were and make sure I actually worked closely with them.
He got a good view of where I stood in the great scheme of his team... I did pretty well that year, and all the other years I held that position.
I'd probably still be with that company if I hadn't been part of the MA&D team that was tasked with selling to a competitor and staying within Robinson-Patman Antitrust statutes, Sarbanes-Oxley rules, meaning I had to figure which franchises (text book families/ series) needed to be diversified in auction to other competitors first so that total market share (by volume and revenue) was below 51.3% of total market by Subject grouping... I'll stop now.
The important part is in bold. From the few "debriefs" I have sat in on following a CMEO survey, it seems that so many people get caught up in the minutiae. Too many people gripe about things that could be handled by their LPO or Chief (first E6 or E7 in their COC).
Scubadew
SOF Support
This. Chain of Command is there for a reason. I can't even count the number of times at an "All Hands Call" that someone has asked the CMC or the CO a question that could probably have been handled at the ALPO or LPO level.
"Sir/Master Chief, do I have to go to field day this week? I got an 'Oustanding' on my last room inspection and I heard that if..."
Sit down.
